Reclaim Your Life: Charting Freedom with Dr. Mary Leung

As a female physician, have you considered dropping to part time to make it all work? Have you tried a scribe or AI, or even "Thrive" courses (as I've done), yet you're still pulling out your hair and feeling like it will never get better? What if the charting piece were solved for you--would that make a difference in your fertility journey and your life in general?

Dr. Mary Leung reclaimed 2.5 hours of her life each day by combining coaching tools and charting efficiency strategies. In this enlightening episode, we discuss the following:

• mindset shifts

• gratitude

• self compassion

• increased focus 

• time-saving strategies (every second counts!)

With her approach, she helps physicians thrive, and not merely survive, while trying to reclaim what was once a calling for them. For her it's more than just time--it's about joy, fulfillment, peace, and having time for life outside of medicine (including a successful fertility journey). 

Don't miss this episode! 

Guest Information: 

Dr. Mary Leung is a physician who is board-certified in internal medicine, medical oncology and hematology. She is also a certified life coach who is passionate about serving physicians who are stressed, overwhelmed and burned out. She is the co-author of the book “Made For More 2”, which was a bestseller on Amazon.

Dr. Mary was working and charting after hours many nights and weekends until life coaching transformed her life. She is now going home at least 2.5 hours earlier than before, with all her clinical work completed for the day. From the depths of her own experience, Dr. Mary founded Shining With Gratitude MD. Her passion and mission is to guide other physicians through their unique situations — so they can feel better, have more time outside of their clinical work, regain control and have more clarity. Her hope is for physicians to rediscover joy in life and in medicine. Dr. Mary believes that if physicians can enjoy practicing medicine again, they can take better care of their patients. Through renewal, they can shine brighter for their families and all the lives they touch.

As always, please keep in mind that this is my perspective and nothing in this podcast is medical advice.

If you found this conversation valuable, book a consult call with me using this link:

https://calendly.com/loveandsciencefertility/discovery-call

Also, be sure to check out our website: loveandsciencefertility.com

Follow us on social media:

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Please don’t let infertility have the final word. We are here to take the burden from you so that you can achieve your goal of building your family with confidence and compassion. I’m rooting for you always.

In Gratitude,

Dr. Erica Bove

Transcript:

Hello, my loves, and welcome back to the Love and Science podcast.

I have an amazing guest today, Dr. Mary Leung. She is a friend and a colleague, and she has so many tips and tricks and mindset shifts and all the things to really help us to experience joy again, to truly get back our time, all the things that are gonna make us happier, healthier female physicians who are undergoing the fertility journey. So by way of introduction, her name is Dr. Mary Leung. She is double board certified in internal medicine and medical hematology and oncology. She works in New York City. She's full-time there.

She also became a certified life coach during COVID. She did the same program that I did, the Life Coach School. And she is the CEO and founder of Shining with Gratitude, which is a very niche practice, coaching practice that helps physicians who are trying to improve their charting efficiency. And really that is the focus, but the whole goal is to help people get back their time, get back their joy, get back their love of medicine. And really, she helps each person in their unique situations that they can uniquely feel better. So they can have more time outside of their clinical work.

If they're struggling with fertility treatments and clinical medicine and all the things, she helps them tailor their plan so that they can do it all and not necessarily lose revenue.

It's, she has this wonderful practice and so many insights and I'm so, so thankful to have her here today. Thank you, Dr. Leung, for being here.

- Thank you so much for having me today.

- Yeah, absolutely. And I will tell you, you know, you'll see some of Dr. Mary's beautiful face on social media, but like her coaching practice is called Shining with Gratitude. And Dr. Mary, she actually shines. Like when you see her, she has this beaming light. Of course, I didn't know you before you became a coach and before you had this whole journey. So I'm curious your own self perceptions of like then versus now, but when I meet you, I just like your joy and your light, it's just contagious. And so I want that to emanate to all the people who are listening because it's real, it's there. And truly, I mean, the good news is it can be ours too, you know?

And so that's the message I wanted to share.

- Well, thank you. And I want to share that I wasn't like that before.

So that's a good segue. So tell us, you know, you had a thriving have really a thriving hematology oncology practice. You know, you're one of the top institutions taking care of patients.

Tell us what sort of led to your finding coaching and deciding maybe to become a coach yourself.

- Yeah, so coaching was never on my mind because I did not even know what coaching was. I thought coaching was just for sports. And so, you know, just briefly, my journey to medicine was really simply to just want to help people. And I like the longitudinal relationship with patients and, you know, not just to connect with them with their diagnoses, but also to connect with them as a human level. And that's what I enjoyed. So then I chose internal medicine to be my specialty because I thought that, well, I could specialize in different things with a lot of options.

And then I came to really enjoy the oncology journey of my patients. And because I just wanted to be a guide, you know, to guide them through difficult times and all. So then when I became an attending, I thought, oh, you know, that's it. I had it all, you know, and-- - I've arrived. - Exactly, arrived finally at the top of the mountain. So not the case. And so I just found myself to be working the same way as I was as a fellow not too long ago, you know, when I first came out of fellowship. And gradually, after I joined this group practice, my schedule got fuller and fuller. And I found myself working longer and longer hours, even though my set hours of scheduled patients did not extend. And eventually to the point that I was going home past seven o'clock, but still with charts undone. And sometimes I had to use the weekends to finish my charts. And I didn't really think too much of it. I was like, I'm hardworking.

I'm just going to do it, you know, continue. - This is what has to be done, right? This is what we all do. This is what we signed up for. It's kind of this like martyr complex that we somehow developed during medicine. I mean, this resonates so much with me too. So yes, please keep sharing.

- Yes. It's like I signed up for, but then I didn't sign up for it. You know, I signed up to be the doctor. I didn't sign up to be the charting machine. I didn't sign up to do all these other administrative work that I did not learn about to do, you know, in training. So then I just started looking back actually quite early on, I started to get exhausted and gradually I did not have a life.

You know, I didn't really get dates with my husband. I didn't even want to hang out with my friends over the weekend because I was so exhausted. And that's something that I enjoy doing. So then I started to think, well, I really wanted to cut down on my hours because I was just so trained. I couldn't even get to connect with my patients the way that I wanted to, because all I was thinking about to was to just finish my work and run. And I couldn't even do that. And that was very frustrating. And I was angry because I just couldn't help the patients the way that I wanted.

And looking back, I realized that I was just physically and emotionally exhausted and really burned out. - Yeah. Which is such a loaded word because I think when we hear that word, which is, I mean, that's what I was thinking as I was hearing like, this is classic burnout, right?

But when we hear that word, there's still this like, oh, but it's about the individual. Oh, but it's your fault. Somehow you just couldn't figure it out to be more efficient or to whatever it was. I feel like there's this very individual onus that we have when we talk about the emotional exhaustion and the physical exhaustion. But I think this is where I think we give ourselves grace too, which it sounds like you couldn't do at the time. I couldn't do at the time. We're like, this is just what we do. We sign up to be these self-sacrificial beings on this planet. I mean, I know your parents were physicians. Maybe you saw them do similar things of self sacrifice. And so it's like, oh, this is just what I signed up for. But over time, it sounds like the cost to you is just more and more and more until you were really just a shadow of yourself. And probably even more than that, resentful and really questioning your decision, right? You're like, I went into this for this reason, but this is not what it's become. - Exactly. And I was just like, why did I do this? Because this is not what I signed up for. And that aside, of course, the healthcare system needs an overhaul and that's a different story. It's like individually, it's what can I do to make it different? Do I have to really work part-time to have a life?

But financially, I wasn't ready to do that. And so I wanted to quit so many times and that the same time I stopped myself. I even thought about moving out of the New York metropolitan area because of the living expenses and all these things. But I thought to myself, I moved 8,000 miles from Hong Kong, my home, to be here, somewhat kidnapped by my husband. Not really, he's from here. And I get along with my in-laws very well. I'm grateful for that.

- Yeah. - And I have all my friends here, so I did not want to move. And I just didn't know what else I could do because I thought I was doing all the things that I could to be more efficient, to really end work on time. So the only thought that I had was to cut down on my hours, which my company or at that time wasn't really an option. So then fast forward to the pandemic.

And I always believe that even though there's something not so good or something bad that happens, we can always find something good from it or something to be grateful for. So for me, it was really the turning point of my life because that was the first time in many years that I was able to leave work on time because I was seeing a third of the number of patients that I normally see. And I thought that was wonderful that the fact that I could go home on time, like four or five o'clock, and really had time to think about what to do, to be baking, to really spend time with the family. And I think that that was wonderful.

What if I could do that when I was going back to full service, seeing the 20 some patients that I was seeing? And so at that time, I came across something called life coaching.

And I thought, well, I was so miserable. You know what? I'm just going to give this thing a try.

Why not? It seems like some physicians are doing it and their physician coaches out there.

So then I joined this women physician coaching program, and that really changed my life.

And I thought that, wow, it makes so much sense to have that we have so many thoughts during the day. And that really caused us to feel the way that we feel. And of course, we human beings are really emotional beings that however we feel, we act accordingly. And of course, our results kind of depend on what our actions are. So then that is such a simple concept that we did not learn in medical school, but it really changed me forever. And so, you know, as you mentioned that I joined as the life coach certification program, really, to learn more in depth about this, not really thinking that, oh, I will be a coach for someone else.

Then, you know, the time came that I was going back to seeing the 20 some patients that I was seeing, and I was able to, instead of going home past seven, I was going home by five, five, 30.

And, you know, with working with my coach to just work on the mindset shift, the efficiency part, the focus part, and which we'll talk about more in a little bit, that I was like, well, what if I could help other physicians do the same? Because, you know, so many of us are so miserable, and we're just barely surviving, really just, you know, hitting the lowest mark possible to say that, okay, let me just finish seeing the patients. Let me just get through the day and sleep and then only just to repeat the day all over again, many, many days ahead. So what if we could just do that with, you know, with more joy, and with really being able to be present to do it, and be able to connect with the patients instead of just, you know, really looking at the clock all the time and be annoyed that all the patient is talking too much.

So that's how I started the coaching practice while still working full time as a clinician.

That is so, so beautiful. And I mean, I don't know a single physician who cannot relate to what you're saying, you know, the notes not done, the sort of being in the room and just sort of being mindful of the time, because how am I going to get my notes and all the things done so that I can keep moving on and not get too behind? It's like, you're right. It does take away from how present we can be with the patient, which is the good stuff in medicine, which also drives outcomes. I mean, you know, it's like, it's also affects their care too, if we're not able to be fully present for their healing. But then it also adds to the moral injury of our trying to get up and do this work every single day. And I think, I mean, so many of us relate, especially those of us who are out of training and the care is like, Oh, don't worry, just finished training. And then like, it's going to get a lot better. And then you realize we still have the EMRs, we still have the need for full schedules and all of that. And so how do we navigate using our expertise that we've spent all this time learning and our truth love? I mean, most of us who go into medicine truly love people, love connecting, love healing, we're healers, but that gets sort of like eroded, that gets robbed from us, right through through our time. And so how can we both preserve our own peace, our own sanity, our own joy, and give the patients the best care that they deserve? Like, how do we do that? And you found a way to do that, and then felt called to give that to other people. And so I've just, I just, I believe in your work so fully. And you know, I think about my people, like my people are mostly female physicians, they are trying to work full time. They're trying to fit in, you know, these appointments every other morning to their fertility offices, which probably aren't in the same facility where they work, you know, so across town, sometimes even hours away, actually, especially if people live in a more remote area, medical desert. And so, like all of this, many people do need to drop part to part time or, you know, per diem to make it work. But then there's a financial cost to that too. And so I'm just sort of asking myself the question, you know, if people had an extra two to two and a half hours of their day, which is, and I mean, to be very frank, if I, if I sort of estimate, you know, I'm getting better, I probably could use your course, but like, you know, as I estimate, like the amount of time that I spend prepping and charting and all the things, like it probably does approximate that time. And so how do we then put in another two to two and a half hours of fertility treatment stuff per day between all the commuting and, and planning and everything? Like it just, it breaks down. It can't be sustained. So what if we could take the time that we're spent charting and funnel that into the fertility journey and, you know, Hey, this is not to say if someone needs to drop to part time or per diem that they should not feel full permission to do that. I fully support that if that's what somebody needs, but if charting is the reason they have to do that, then I think we need like an extra excavator.

Like I see these, like, you know, like work machines just like completely digging up the dirt because that we need a whole overhaul. That should not be the reason that people are not able to work to the top of their license is the charting. So, so then, you know, I wanted to speak about mindset. What do you think, Dr. Long, do you think it makes sense to talk about the mindset piece first or the practical strategies first? I would say it's the mindset because it all starts with the mindset. Okay. And then, you know, my, my coaching program and practice that's fundamental as well. So let's talk about how, how do you help people shift into a space where it is more doable to have all the things we just talked about?

Yeah, I think for, for my coaching clients, especially who are really, a lot of them are in kind of the, when we first meet, you know, in, in the, you know, barely getting by situation surviving and not thriving situation. And so we kind of like look deeper into their lives, you know, and see, so what is the biggest obstacle for you, you know, to, I guess, to get out of the survival mode, what is the biggest thing you have to do, or that you think that would help you the most. So, so for, for most, most of my clients will be like a charting piece because that's the one, well, it used to be mine to the bane of my existence. Really, you know, I, I, I hated it because that was the, the, the one thing I thought that was, you know, robbed me of my joy of my time, of my pretty much everything. So, so then I think, you know, them really realizing what it is first, that's very important. And, and the second thing is, it's like, what do you think will make you have more peace, you know, have kind of like living more in alignment with your values?

I think that's very important to, to know, you know, what you value the most. So it's like, you know, if you want to spend time outside of medicine, to, to develop a hobby or to, you know, to have your fertility journey, for example, that's your goal. So you got to keep that in mind that, okay, this is your goal and kind of like, you know, working it backwards to say, Oh, how can I make this happen?

But before that, it's, you know, you got to believe that you can do it because, you know, if you don't believe, then you're not going to, you know, come up with ways that are kind of like even outside of your box or, you know, seeking help or anything to do it. I always say that, you know, like, just like someone learning how to ride a bicycle, you know, if you don't believe that you can do it, you're not going to, you know, give in your best effort, or you're not going to try it at all. So, so it's kind of like, I think the women physicians who are joining your program is that, you know, they believe that they can really get through this fertility journey because they believe in you and otherwise they're not going to do anything about the fertility or infertility. Or they'll go through the motions and just be like, well, I have to do this because this is a goal of mine. But like, when the heart isn't in it, you know, then the thoughts, you know, are lower quality thoughts and limiting beliefs and those sorts of things. And so it's like, well, how can we have that belief at the outset, even if it's just the door is cracked, I say, you don't have to say like, with a hundred percent certainty, this is going to work out. I think if we say it is possible that there is a better way, it is possible that this is my highest good. Then that just like kickstarts everything because then it starts the possibility thinking just like the charting, right? Just like the charting. And also I will just add in the side, I think that the cancer journey and the fertility journey have a lot of similarities. Clearly there's differences, but I think that a lot of the thoughts and a lot of the brain chemistry stuff, I mean, there's so much research that the brain chemistry is very similar in those two states because it's a huge threat, right? It's a huge threat, the threat of end of life, threat of recurrence, threat of not building a family.

Like those things really activate those fear centers in the brain. And so how do you, when it comes to charting, how do you just start like, what are the mantras? If it's mantras, like what is, I know you use gratitude, I know you use self-compassion, like how do we get in that frame to believe it's actually possible? Yeah. So to continue what we're talking about is that you got to believe that it is possible first. And I think the preparation work is very important.

So, of course prepare your mind. And that starts before you walk into your clinic or your office.

So it starts from, oh, I should say maybe the night before, good night's sleep. Our friend, Dr. Funke will be proud that I mentioned it. She's a sleep doctor. So I think sleeping, it's really important for us physically, so you feel rested because I think we've all gone through this when we're not rested, we feel very grumpy. We can't focus. Everything is irritable. So sleeping is very important. And of course, emotionally, you're more calm and you can better focus when you're well rested. So that starts with that. And the morning off, I would just say when you wake up in the morning, just pay attention to what your first thought is. You may be thinking about, oh, it's another little day. It's long. It's going to be dreadful. You have all these kind of not so helpful thoughts in your head when you start your day and notice how that affects you emotionally.

That's not very helpful. So you can actually choose something else to focus on, to think about.

So I always share that my sentence when I wake up still in bed before I get up to brush my teeth is today is going to be a great day no matter what happens. So then that already sets the tone for the day that you know what, there are going to be surprises, good and bad, especially in medicine. And I think for people who are in emergency medicine, especially, because you don't really know what it's going to walk in. But even for me, for my hemon practice is like sometimes, you know, you know, the patient, but they may have unexpected, more complicated situations that you have. So then, you know, no matter what happens is like, we're basically, we control what we can control. And there are things that we cannot control, no matter how hard we try. And we accept the fact that we cannot control them, not to say that we're not doing like, not to say that we're doing nothing about it, but to say that, all right, this is the situation I expect that now I can use more energy to focus on what to do about the situation. So I can I repeat what you just said. So you just said that there's some things that we can control, and some things that we can control cannot control, right? And if we spend money, we spend energy, precious time, and energy on the things that we can't control, that's energy that we are basically wasting, right? Because we could be funneling that energy into the things we can control. But because we're so stuck on the things we can't control, it just kind of like just leaks out of our system, right? So yeah, and then we might even sort of further lose energy because we get angry and resentful that we can't change those things. And so then we're like down more counts than just that initial one. So yes, things we can control, things we can't control, and funneling the energy into the things we can't control. Beautiful. Yeah, and not to mention the time that we wasted on, you know, thinking about or arguing with reality, right? Yes, yes, yes. Yes, that that is suffering. I tell all my clients, you know, there's the pain, and then there's the suffering, right? And we have yes, sure, maybe the pain is unavoidable. But it's the stories, the resistance, the avoidance, all the things that that magnifies that by at least tenfold. And that's why we suffer, the pain is one thing, but the suffering is actually optional. And, and this is what I'm hearing you say, right? With the with the mindset piece. Yes, yes. And so, you know, when you prep yourself, it's, you know, you can and I invite you all to just make up your own sentence, you know, you can borrow mine, feel free, but you know, make up a sentence that you feel true to yourself.

It can be just today is going to be a manageable day. Yeah. You know, today, I'm going to be, you know, feel more calm, you know, whatever it is that works for you, that you've heard you say before. And this is funny, because this was actually my first thought this morning, this very morning when I woke up out of bed, from bed is I'm grateful to be alive today. And I think, I mean, a he-mong doctor who who better that to say that, you know, I'm grateful to be alive today, but that, you know, I have adopted that. And that has helped me because it could not be the case. I mean, we all die at some point, you know, like, so it is possible that I would not be given this day to live. And so, because our time is finite, because we have this one precious life to live, to my knowledge, you know, like, why not make the most of it? And why not start with this day as a gift? And so therefore, what can I do with the time that I have? Right? So that's, that's one thing that helps me with, you know, just like you, I mean, you work full time and you ever coaching practice. For me, that works regardless of what I'm doing. I think that one thing that really helps me when I'm doing my clinical practice is like, I remind myself, I'm not alone, right? Because I think that when I get in my most deepest funk about all of this is like, I'm like, what major disaster is going to befall me today? And I'm alone. And if something bad happens, it's all up to me to figure it out. I mean, again, like, it sounds like an exaggeration, but sometimes these are actually my thoughts. And I think that's why people need somebody like you to be like, Oh, guess what?

You're not alone. You, you have your, you know, unless you're like in the middle of like rural Africa, right? You're probably, you probably have some colleagues you can count on if you need to phone a friend, whatever. Okay. But even as an attending, we can call our colleagues when we have things that are challenging and we have a charting coach like you who can help us with the charting. So like when we remind ourselves that we're truly not alone, it helps so much with so many things, but it truly is true because, because you're, you're here in this specific way to help us all right. With this part of the, this necessary part of the job. Exactly. And I think that, you know, as you mentioned, it's really, don't be afraid to ask for help no matter what it is, be it charting or anything else, because it, you know, if you don't ask for help, sometimes people around you, they don't know to help you. And, and it actually saves you so much more time and effort than to figure it out on your own. You know, if after a while, I really, well, for me, for example, it's like technical support, you know, if, if I don't have the help desk, I'm, I'm dead. So, so it's, it's really important to don't be afraid, you know, don't be embarrassed, just ask for help because and, and, and yeah, even in, you know, oncology question, you know, there are questions that I have, I would just kind of bounce it off my colleagues and say, Hey, what do you think? And, and sometimes I may get a different perspective like, Oh, interesting, you know, maybe I'll, I'll view it that way. So I think it's a lot of it is also practicing that, you know, yes, we, we all, you know, grow up differently. And all we all have different ways to look at things. And, and we, we can also learn to be open to look at the same situation in multiple different, you know, perspectives. So I think, by, you know, exercising to having that muscle to, to look at things differently, you realize that, Oh, you know what, I can feel more calm or less angry or whatever it is that is more helpful in your situation to be, say, more efficient and just to do things and, in a more productive way. Yeah, absolutely. It makes so much sense. And I think it is a little countercultural to say that we can ask for help. I mean, I think some of us in our personal labs have been like, okay, fine, I'm going to break down and have somebody clean my house every couple weeks or whatever it is, you know, I can ask for help in that way. Or, Oh, you know, I can ask for help mowing the lawn every couple of weeks. I can pay for that to be done. Right. But it's like, when it comes to things that are like within medicine, we feel like we should be able to do it ourselves, but that is so not true. And so, you know, I'm curious, you say it starts with, with gratitude, absolutely, and possibility thinking. And, and then, you know, some self-compassion, right? Because like, whenever we do something a different way, we need to hold space for ourselves, because it's never going to be perfect, right? We got to sort of hold space for ourselves to be on the learning curve of new things. Like say you say, Oh, Erica, like I've, I've audited your, you know, epic practice and, you know, you are spending, you know, you're doing this well, but really, like, you know, you could really use more templates and XYZ, right? Like, like there's one way that I could be like defensive, like, what do you mean? I'm not like, I put, so I've gotten to all the thrive classes and I've done this and I've done that. And I, this is just the way it is, you know, but like sort of giving ourselves grace to be like, Oh, there, there actually might be a better way.

And, you know, maybe if I sort of like accept, accept the help, accept the suggestions, just even being open to considering that, that it's possible that I can learn and this might help me be more efficient, that I will have more energy. I will have more joy. I will have more time, you know, you know, personally in this very moment, I'm not going through fertility treatments, but if I were like what a gift that would be to be able to end my day, having gotten to my fertility appointment, having seen all the patients, having all my charts closed, and then being able to enjoy a partner or activity, a yoga class, whatever it is. So I'm curious, what are some practical things?

And I know you have your whole course and coaching and all the things like, what are some practical ways that our listeners could start to think about efficiency and gaining back some of this time?

Yeah, so one thing you kind of mentioned earlier is the perfection aspect of things. So it's okay that we're human beings and we're not perfect. And, and meaning that our charting, our notes don't have to be perfect. Thank you for saying that. Because you know what, I used to think that, oh, you know, what does that sound right? Am I writing a good intellectual paragraph? No one cares. Okay. Really, no one cares. Right. It's just gotta be good enough that people can understand what happened, the nature of the conversation. It has to pass the medical legal test as well. You know, I, I pride myself on B minus charting, right? But I pride myself that when somebody picks up that note, they're not reading paragraphs, I'm on paragraphs upon paragraphs because, you know, you know why you're doing what you're doing, right? You just, you need, you need the, the doc, the bare bones, you don't need like the very verbose version of all of that. So yes, I appreciate that. Yes.

We're not looking for a plus charting. We're looking for good enough sufficient.

Exactly. And good enough is, as you said, it's really to, to record what, you know, your findings and what, what you're thinking and what, what you plan to do. And that is to remind yourself at a later time of, okay, this is what I did or what I was thinking. And also to communicate with other clinicians. Yes. Okay. This is what you're thinking. And of course, you know, there's the billing aspect of things too. So, so if, if your note satisfies those things, that's good enough.

Move on. And I think, you know, when, when I see a note that is like 15 pages long, I don't want to read it. I go straight to the assessment and plan and say, okay. And then, and then just skim through what, what is important. So I think sometimes it's like, if you, you know, if you don't have AI, that's okay. I don't, you know, my, my institution, we don't lose AI yet.

And, and I'm still, you know, my, my friend is the dragon dictation and, and my typing. Thankfully, I type pretty efficiently. And, and, you know, I think point form, you know, like, like just writing in points and phrases, it's really helpful because that is very easy for everyone to follow.

And you don't have to look at paragraphs after paragraphs to figure out, oh, this is the plan.

So, so that's, I think it's a very important concept that, you know, good enough is good enough.

I love that. That is so helpful. What else? So we say we can embrace that. What's like the next step?

Yeah. So, so one thing that is important, not just for charting, but for everything that you do is the ability to focus. So the focusing part, and that again brings us back to, you know, we really need our physical health to be able to focus. So, so the sleeping is very important. And of course, you know, if you eat right and exercise, you know, all those are three pillars of health that I believe in. And so when, when you're able to have, you know, the rest that you need to, and you can focus better because we are designed to really focus on or able to focus on one thing at a time, you know, the multitasking thing does not exist. And it doesn't, because when, when we try to do more than one thing at a time, we're just really switching from one thing to another.

And every time we switch, it takes us time to really settle down and refocus to the second thing, and then go back to the first thing or to the third thing. So you end up spending more time to do those three things together, together in quotes, rather than focusing on one at a time and complete those three things. That makes a lot of sense. And that may even, well, it's tricky. I mean, I think that there are some templates that are amenable to writing the note in the room, right?

And there's probably some other situations that aren't as amenable to that. So I think it really needs to be highly individualized, but I, I'm in an academic center where we have residents and fellows coming through and medical students. And part of what I want to teach them is like, how can you write efficient, high quality notes and not lose the rest of your life over it? Right?

And so I think it's, you know, one of my, my residents last week said, but I just can't type in the room. It's so hard for me to do that. And not that everybody has to do that, but I think there are ways that we can learn ourselves and learn what works for us to make it as efficient as possible. You know, but I think we do need to train the next generation. Otherwise, I mean, this is, this is fantastic. I also think like, what if we learn it this way from the beginning, like where would we be, you know? So, so that's, that's clear to be that we need to focus, which means like practically let's think about what that means practically. So there's focus modes on our phone, which we can sort of silence notifications. There's apps that, you know, for me, my phone's my pager. So that's tricky, but like, there's a way to filter, you know, which things come through with notifications and which don't so that that also means that my phone can be my pager.

And I'm not distracted by like Instagram or some sale or whatever, whatever thing comes across our phone. Right? What other suggestions do you have for focusing? Exactly. So, so, you know, so you, you mentioned things about really minimizing the distractions and as you mentioned, you know, you don't have to put your work email on your phone. It's okay. I don't, because I only check it during work, you know, they shouldn't be emailing me with urgent things after hours anyway. And, and yeah, turn off the notification sound because every time you hear it, thank you. It's, it's like, you know, it's automatic that you're thinking, what is it about? Let me, you know, and you think about, should I look or should I not? Yeah. What am I missing? You're wasting time. Right. Then maybe you see the first line of the email and you're like, Oh, what does she say? I really want to like, but like, why do we need to even go there? You know? Yeah. Yeah. So imagine if you do that 20 times, it's already like probably like close to, you know, 10 minutes at least of your time of the day. Yeah. So, you know, cause, cause this, you know, charting efficiencies, of course, it's not just about charting, but it's, it's also every second counts. So if you add up here and there, it really adds up, which brings us to, I just want to go back to you talking about charting or typing in the room. So I think one of the, yes, it has to be individualized. But also I want to invite our, you know, a physician audience to think about why do you think you cannot type in the room? You know, is it like, so that used to be me.

I used to think that, Oh, it's rude to type in the room. But then it's like, is it though, you know, just question it, just be curious about it. It's like, you know, is it, is it because like you, you would think that they think that you're rude or, or what, but do you know, do your patients really think that because what you're doing, it's about them, you know, so say, if, if I am in the room and they're telling me their HPI and I'm just typing as they say, that's actually the most accurate way to support everything that they're saying. I mean, you don't have to do it word for word, not, you're not in court, but you know, you, you kind of like you do it, you know, the gist of it. And then guess what? When you're out of the room, you don't have to think about it anymore.

Same. And we put in all of our own orders and I just tell, I'd narrate to the patients what I'm doing the time. I'm like, Oh, you know, the older I get, when I get a good thought, I got a document date, you know, I sort of make a joke out of it, but I just, thankfully I, I, you can see the piano behind me. Thankfully my, my, my neurons are very well versed in typing very quickly. And so, and I just say like, I just want to make you have my full attention. This is what I say to them. You have my full attention. I'm just going to document what we just talked about, put in some orders, and then you're going to be all set. So then I can leave that room and my brain is set. I don't, you know, it's, it's better to do it there than like on a Saturday night when I've already forgotten most of what they said. So you're right. I think getting over, I thought this poor trainee, she's going to have, I'm like, she's going to learn, but it's going to, she's, she's got to learn this because you know, otherwise she's going to suffer. That was my thought. So let me model this. And then as you do and teach people, because it's, it's, it makes a big difference and it's not rude.

I mean, my PCP does it when I'm in the office. I just think, you know, he gives me his attention.

I feel, I feel well heard. And you understand it. It is part of the work of the visit is the capturing and the orders and all of that. So yes, challenging our mindset about that is so important.

Exactly. And you, you brought up a good point. It's like, you know, you do all the orders, all the med refills in the room. And so you both know that you did it because instances in the past, you know, before the coaching era, that I would, I would just be chatting with the patient, talking about ordering things. And then I forgot to actually order. Totally. We've all been there.

Yeah. So it's like, it's just that, that singleness of purpose in that moment. I think it's best for everybody. Oh my goodness. Dr. Mary, I feel like we could talk for hours. I, I think everyone should do your program because this is like, if charting has to be part of what we do. And I mean, now we have like a second EMR in addition to Epic for all the IV. I mean, it's just like, again, like of my annoyances, irritations of clinical medicine that is like high on my list. And I think we could all benefit from your wisdom and all that you've learned and can share with others. So where can people find you? Yeah. So my website is a www dot shining with gratitude, MD.com. And my email is shining with gratitude, MD@gmail.com. And I'm also on LinkedIn, Mary Leung MD and Facebook, Mary Leung.

Amazing. We'll put this all in the show notes too. Is there anything else you want to share with the audience before we say goodbye for today? But of course, this is, you know, the first of many conversations for people. Yeah. So I, I just want to invite everyone to really explore and be open to the idea that it is possible. It is possible for you to be more efficient. Like even though you think that you have done all things, that there may be one or two other things that you haven't tried. So be open, you know, be curious about it. And it is possible for you too. And especially for the journey that you want to go into, you know, infertility journey that, you know, you want really more time and energy to do those things. So don't let charting stop you. And that's our most time is our most precious resource. And so I think, you know, by somebody, you know, like you who can actually give us our time back, I can imagine a more, a more wonderful gift.

And it's not just time. It's really more peace, more joy, more gratitude. And this is what I've been feeling now. So that's why I'm saying that, you know, besides the charting piece physically, I am a totally different person because I'm able to, you know, feel all my emotions, not just the pleasant ones, but also accept the unpleasant ones. And they're going to happen all day long.

And that's coaching for you. And it's okay, because that's okay. We can control, right? Remember, let's control what we cannot control. And, and we learn to manage those things. We want learn to process those emotions. And we, you know, we learn to be more present, you know, in, in the day, and we, you know, deal with things. And yeah, you know, they're, they're going to be upsets and disappointments. And we use those as learning opportunities to grow and be better.

That's right. That's right. And that's the whole point. It applies to charting. It applies to the fertility journey to all of it. So thank you so much for being a guest. Please go find her, go work with her. And until the next time, I love. Thank you. Bye. Thank you.