Overcoming Decision Fatigue: How One Graduate Recentered and Became a Mother
Today's episode is very dear to me-- a Love and Science graduate shares her successful fertility journey.
Although she joined less than a year prior to the date of this recording, her next transfer was successful, and now she is a mother.
Please listen with the understanding that someone just like you has walked this journey and, with the help of a trusted guide, is on the other side of parenthood--whole, supported, and grateful.
We discuss the following:
her personal story prior to joining Love and Science (sadly including 4 miscarriages, one of which was a PGT-a tested embryo)
how Love and Science helped her to center her thoughts and get rid of much fear and negativity
how taking a thorough history and using additional testing added to her IVF treatment plan
how she navigated difficult news and uncertainty even during her pregnancy
how she continues to use Love and Science tools as a new parent
As always, please keep in mind that this is my perspective and nothing in this podcast is medical advice.
If you found this conversation valuable, book a consult call with me using this link:
https://calendly.com/loveandsciencefertility/discovery-call
Also, be sure to check out our website: loveandsciencefertility.com
Follow us on social media:
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Please don’t let infertility have the final word. We are here to take the burden from you so that you can achieve your goal of building your family with confidence and compassion. I’m rooting for you always.
In Gratitude,
Dr. Erica Bove
Transcript:
Hello, my loves.
Welcome back to the Love and Science podcast.
I'm getting teary just even introducing our guests today because it has been a year tomorrow as of the time of this recording since we met.
And she is a general surgeon who came to Love and Science having not yet been successful. And as of today, she is a mom of two beautiful daughters.
And so she is here today bravely to share her story, which was not an easy journey, but I think so powerful for so many people to hear, especially people who have not had success yet.
So thank you, Dr. Jenn.
It is so, so wonderful that you're here today.
Thank you. And thank you for all of the work that you do.
It's made a very big difference in my life.
And so I'm happy to share my journey. Yes, absolutely.
And again, thank you so much for sharing.
It just means so much to hear your journey.
So tell me, so we met truly a year ago tomorrow, which feels like an anniversary of swords.
Tell me about your journey up until then with fertility.
You were very proactive, right?
Yes.
Yes.
So when I am 42 years old now, when I was 35, I was in the military and stationed overseas and not sure where life was going to take me, where I was going to work or how I didn't have a partner at the time.
And all I knew is that whatever happened, I wanted to be able to have kids.
And I knew that that age was approaching where I may struggle.
And so I made the decision to go through an egg retrieval cycle to freeze my eggs.
I read a little bit about it and kind of got prepared and found a place to do it on my own and got back to the US and did it as soon as I turned 36.
And I got, I think I had maybe 15 eggs, did just one retrieval, did 15 eggs.
And I think 12 of them were M2 and three of them were M1 and just kept those and went on with life and decided to separate from the military and moved back to my hometown and eventually met my husband when I was 38, I think.
And we got married and started trying on our own.
And I had three miscarriages.
So we were getting pregnant and miscarried three times.
And obviously those are devastating all within a year.
And so come 39, it's like, okay, how should we proceed?
I don't want to keep doing this.
We really want to have kids, but I don't want to keep trying naturally if the outcome is going to be poor.
And so we had the eggs and decided we're going to fertilize them.
And so we did and ended up with four PGTA normal embryos, two girls and two boys, and decided at that point to move forward with an embryo transfer.
And so at this point, I think I was, by the time we got everything done and all the eggs shipped and fertilized and tested and all that, I think I was 41.
And we did our first embryo transfer right before I met you, right before I figured out who you were.
And so of course, you've gone through many losses.
You've joined all these Facebook groups and you're reading everyone's stories and either so many of us that are in the same boat, just struggling with miscarriages and wanting so badly to have a child and just not being successful, whether it's the stress of being a physician or whatever it is, you just sort of feel some sort of, I don't want to say use the word comfort, but it's less isolating when you read in those groups how many other people truly are going through the same thing because you really do feel so alone.
And so I was in a physician infertility group and I had seen many of your responses and read your responses to many different people.
And I just, I loved what you were saying.
And so I kind of kept in the back of my mind, like, yeah, maybe I want to, maybe I should reach out to this Dr. Bove and, you know, do what, I don't know for sure that I want to do it.
It's it, you know, I don't, I don't want to put any more cost than anything.
Like, I just don't, I don't know that I really need it.
But shortly after I, I learned who you were through the Facebook groups, we did our first embryo transfer and we did, we did that.
And again, right around seven weeks, just like all the other miscarriages, we miscarried a perfectly genetically normal embryo.
And so that's when I kind of was like, I am so ready to throw in the towel.
Like I don't, I, my body does not want to do this.
This is, you know, for some reason, the world is just trying to tell us that we are not supposed to be parents.
And you know, kind of had that mentality and, you know, and of course my husband's like, it's just this one, we still have three other embryos.
Why can't you keep trying?
I'm like, because I don't want to keep losing, you know, I don't, I, to go through that is it's devastating, as many of us know.
And so when I, you know, I was like, well, maybe I'll reach out to this, you know, to this love and science and see if this is something that will mentally help me get back into a place where I actually want to do another transfer.
Because at that point, I don't think I, I think I wanted to, but I was scared, very scared, had a lot of fear because, because we had so many losses and I didn't want to do it again.
And, and so I reached out to you and we got started.
And I think through you, I was, you know, the, the mental component of it, the emotional component is so important just to get myself back into a better mindset.
Because when you, it's really hard not to be negative or feel like you don't deserve, you don't deserve to have a, to be a mom.
You don't deserve for success.
You don't deserve, you know, for things to work out when you've gone through so many losses, you think like there's something wrong with me, you know?
And so through, through my work with you, I was able to mentally and emotionally be in a better place to move on with another transfer.
And so we did subsequently undergo another transfer and with just one embryo and that embryo split.
So it was, you know, we walked in, had our seven week ultrasound and by this point I'm having no symptoms.
I'm certain it was just another failure and our, our, our REI doctor just basically said, well, there's two babies in there and they, they look like they're sharing everything.
And of course that's more devastating news because you're like, I will, all I want to know is a healthy pregnancy.
This is, this is so scary.
And I think I remember talking to you about that.
Like, okay, well now we're pregnant, we're having twins.
Are we even going to be successful with this?
And you even were helpful with what was going, you know, going through that with me and saying, we have no reason to think that this is not going to be successful.
And you are very good at helping somebody be in that mindset.
You have no reason to think that this is not going to be successful right now.
And so you were a huge help to me getting to that point.
And long story short, they were not sharing the same SAC and they were sharing the same placental, but not the same SAC.
And now I have two beautiful, healthy, genetically normal twin identical girls.
So yeah, so that's, that's, that's where we are today.
And they are now almost four months old.
It's amazing.
It's just amazing to me, everything that's happened.
And you know, I just, I think about so many hurdles.
I mean, I think, you know, you get to the point of a positive pregnancy test, which is in and of itself, it's unheard of.
But you know, when you've had losses, it's really, really hard to even be excited at that point because you're like, well, is this going to be another loss?
Like what's going to happen?
And I just, I remember you handling, you know, first trimester spotting and just being like, what's going on?
Is this still going to be okay?
And I remember you handling the news of, oh my gosh, like this might end in a miscarriage.
And I remember we did like a combination of like actually going to the data and being like, okay, if this is a mono, mono gestation, this is the data.
If this is a mono digestion, this is the data.
And so chances are more likely than not that this is going to work out.
It wasn't just like some pie in the sky, like, you know, false hope, but it was like, okay, this is actually your situation.
And this is what the literature says.
Right?
Because I think that sometimes we can actually take sort of something we can stick our teeth into as the science.
We're all scientists here.
Right.
Right.
But I also think, you know, just thinking, I think about your own transformation.
Like I remember, I remember when, when we first had that conversation and I remember your perspective was like, I really want to believe this is going to work, but all we've gotten so far is bad news.
And how, how can I even think it's possible that another embryo might take and stay like that just seems so far fetched at this point.
Like how do I even get to that point?
Do you remember what helped you?
Do you remember what helped you sort of shift that because I remember like, and I went back to our notes too, there was a point right before your transfer when you were like, it is possible that this next transfer is going to take.
And this is the shift.
I wish I could bottle it up.
That's why working together is so important.
But I remember you had like this transformation of going from like, I want to believe, but I'm not sure I can.
And then, and then you got into the mental space of like, I actually believe it's possible.
I think I remember being more settled with the fact that it would, it would be okay if it didn't work out and, and how much of that was really feeling that way.
And like trying to convince myself, like the only way that I'm emotionally going to be able to step forward is to be okay with whatever the outcome is going to be.
And understanding that if, if I don't believe that this is going to happen, then it's not going to happen.
So trying to, you know, really get deep inside my, deep inside my, my thoughts and my, and my heart and, and just saying, okay, for whatever reason, um, did I think you, you interviewed somebody, Dr. Chrissy, maybe she, um, her podcast or her, um, your interview with her stuck really a lot with me.
And I don't, I don't remember if it was before or after.
Um, I think it was right before we did the transfer.
Um, she said something like, like for whatever reason, those, those babies, you know, the embryos that, that miscarried, they were not meant to be a part of your world.
And whatever that reason is, you have to be okay with and not, and you can't, you can't dwell on that.
That really stuck with me, I think.
And just saying like, if, if, you know, there's, there's a reason why these didn't work out and really trying to, you may not understand why, but they're not here for a reason.
And so kind of saying, okay, well, maybe this next one is going to be the one.
And, and we have no reason to think that continuing.
And I know we are very, very lucky to have had good embryos.
Um, you know, I was blaming my uterus and trying my body and trying to be like, okay, well, we had a good embryo.
Why didn't this one work?
You know, we went through the natural stuff and miscarried every time.
And then we did an embryo that was normal, normal quote unquote.
Um, and that didn't work.
So what makes you think that, that trying, you know, wasting the rest of our stuff is, is going to be a good idea.
But I think it was, it was a combination of hearing her perspective and, and going through things with you to really try to positively change the way that I was viewing the situation and not be so negative about it and be more hopeful moving forward.
Makes total sense.
And I think, you know, I always tell people like the little soul or souls in your case who are meant to be yours are going to connect with you when it's supposed to happen.
And I think sometimes these things are beyond us.
Like I always say, I'm a conduit to help people, you know, with, with their parenthood journey, the way that that's supposed to happen.
And so, you know, when I think about your journey, I remember specifically like listening to your story and just being like, something does not make sense here.
Like these losses, like, you know, again, you know, sometimes you just don't know, uh, you know, outside of IVF, but these were tested embryos.
And then we went through your family history.
And then we talked about maybe tinkering with the protocol a little bit, you know, like in this, in this role, I always provide my perspective.
I say it's never a medical advice, but I also remember there was some scientific tinkering that was done that, right.
Yeah.
That I really do believe helped with the maintenance of, of the pregnancy that stuck.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I did, I did my own, uh, I went and, um, bought like a home MTHFR.
Test.
And is that what you were talking about?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember combined with your family history, where it was like, this is, you know, there had been some really unexpected things happen, you know, from a clotting perspective, and it was like, well, you know, I think there's something here that maybe needs attention and you had a conversation with your REI.
And, um, the plan was made to then, I believe with your next transfer to use a blood thinner, right?
To, to be on Lovenox.
Yes.
Yeah.
And so I did the home tech, you know, and I'm a physician, you're like, okay, this is not supported by any note, not the geneticists, not the, the, not the REI doctors, not the OBGYNs, like this is a nothing, but I'm going to, I'm going to pay for this test and get it done anyway.
And so, and I did, and, and it turns out I did have the right version of the mutation.
I don't remember, um, exactly what it was.
And, and so I, now that I had that, I'm like, well, what do I do with this now?
Do we just ignore it?
Even though is it really a nothing?
And so I sent it to my REI and I just said, I know you're going to hate me that I even went and got this tested because I know it's not really supported, but could we maybe try just because I've had so many losses and she was 100% on board with starting, we started Lovenox, I think we did.
Um, Uh, and then we up the folic acid.
Um, um, and that, I mean, I don't know if that's what did it.
I, I have no idea, but we never know.
Right.
But sometimes it didn't hurt.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sometimes it just takes like looking at the picture and like, I thought, I'm like, okay, you're coming to me with this new information.
You have this family history.
You've had all these losses.
Like there is something there.
I scientifically that is not making sense.
And I think sometimes, even if it's somewhat of a data-free zone, you know, sometimes you have to lead into that intuition, lean into that.
Like there's something else that hasn't been sort of, this isn't making sense.
And you know, I'm just so glad your girls are here.
I'm just so glad.
And, and you know, we started to say like, no, you had the spotting in the first semester, you had, you know, other pieces of news that were revealed to you throughout the pregnancy that I think were really, really difficult to deal with too.
And I think every single time you approached those situations with an openness, with a grace, with a, you know, this is going to unfold the way it's meant to, and I'm going to do my part.
Like that's one thing that inspired me so much about you is just how, you know, at every point there was sort of even just more uncertainty.
You're just like, okay, well, I'm going to keep moving forward through this uncertainty, which I think, I think, I think is a skill.
Like, I think we talk about it a lot, love and science, because that is not easy to do.
You know, you've worked so hard for this pregnancy and you, you want it to continue.
You want nothing more than to deliver these healthy babies.
But there was a time when, when there was that uncertainty, right?
So what do you, what would you say to somebody who is in the middle of uncertainty right now, from your perspective now?
Um, don't, don't give up and don't, don't let yourself go down some of the dark, really dark rabbit holes that, that you can get into when you're, when you're going through this, because the journey is not easy and you are absolutely not alone.
Um, I do think that's, I mean, it would, anytime I got bad news, you were the first person that I would tell, just, I would send a text to me like, okay, now here we go, this is, this is all negative.
And you were very good at responding to me and just with, with a gentleness that I think is very unique and was very helpful to me.
And, and it was reassuring in many ways, even though you weren't medically a part of my care, you weren't, you know, just emotionally, you were very supportive, which helped me in turn kind of calm to my thoughts down.
Um, so I think having, having somebody to be able to help you with that is, was huge in, in my success.
So I thank you for that.
Um, and for, for us women physicians who are nearing 40, cause this is how, this is how it works, you can go through all this training and you put it off and you put it off and you, you know, put this all into your career and then suddenly are like struggling with this thing that seems to come so easy to everybody else.
Um, it can, it can work out.
And even after lots of devastating news, I mean, a year ago, I didn't think I would be here right now and now I have two beautiful baby girls that I have to go back to work this week.
So that's a whole new adjustment.
Um, but yeah, I know it's hard.
It's hard.
And you do think that it's never going to happen, but it can.
You just have to, you just have to give yourself some grace and some patience and, and try to learn to reframe the way that you think about things because I do think that part of it is really important.
Yeah.
We have a harsh inner critic, don't we?
Yes.
We really, really do.
And I think you're right.
Giving ourselves grace, learning how to give ourselves grace, I think is really important and finding your A team I think can be really, really helpful.
Um, I'm curious, you know, now that you're on the other side and now you're a parent, which is so wonderful.
Um, are there any love and science tools that you're carrying with you into your new journey as a parent, or are there any things about self-compassion or boundaries or filling your well or any of the things that we talked about during the three months you were with us, um, that are like, Oh, I actually still use these skills these days.
It wasn't just like a thing during this chapter.
Um, this may or may not be relevant and, and we can edit it out if it's not.
But, um, I think that when you have a baby, um, or two babies, all of the hormones and everything, and, and, and, and now suddenly you're, you're responsible for these, these little tiny babies that you just, and you love them so much that you, you don't even know how you could have ever not like had that in your life.
Like I love my girl so much.
It's overwhelming to me how often I think about them getting hurt.
Like, like it's like we have a trash compactor.
It's, and I, I freak out that there's a trash compactor in the house and I'm very overwhelmed with those thoughts in it.
And I constantly have to remind myself that that is irrational and there's no reason to think that something is going to happen to, you know, just kind of like recentering myself and being like, wow, this is not, maybe this is postpartum anxiety, I don't know, but is, you know, this is re recentering your, your mindset and being like, why in the world would that ever be an issue?
You know, but it's hard when you, when, you know, now that they're born, I'm like, I'm going to lose them.
You know, like there's some, I'm going to do this.
You know, like there's some, I'm going to do something wrong.
Somebody's going to drop a baby or somebody's going to trip when they're holding them and you know, you're thinking about all of those things.
And those are irrational thoughts.
And I understand that.
And I think recentering and being like, you have absolutely no reason to think that this is not going to be that your kids are not, they're, they're going to be okay, like everything's going to be okay.
I don't know if that's relevant.
No, no, I think it's totally relevant.
And I think the first thing you said is that actually maybe this is postpartum anxiety and again, not here to diagnose, but I will just say that people who have gone on the fertility journey actually do have a higher rate of postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety compared to people who have not gone through the fertility journey.
So just like a public service announcement about that.
So, you know, maybe like have your therapist lined up ready to go, you know, cause I think it can be so, um, really hard.
But then also what I also heard you say is that you're able to notice a thought.
And I think so many of us are like having these thoughts in the subconscious that are not serving us whatsoever.
Our thoughts create our feelings, our feelings, our actions.
Our actions actually create our results in the world.
And so if we're having these thoughts, we're not even aware of them.
Then we're just sort of on autopilot.
But if you can be like, huh, I think I'm having an irrational thought.
Then you actually get to decide what to do with that, right?
Then you're like, okay, do I challenge the thought?
Do I indulge the thought?
Do I get rid of the trash compactor altogether?
Like you get to choose, but as, but like, as we start to code things as thoughts, then we get our agency because we're not just like being dictated by these things running around the subconscious.
So thank you so much for sharing that.
I think that's a really powerful example.
And I also think you're going to bring those tools.
This is one thing I love about this work is that when you transform, you then are able to carry that forward in your parenting, right?
You're going to, you're going to, you know, help your girls with uncertainty.
You're going to help them with self-compassion.
You're going to help them with boundaries.
You're going to help them with relationships, like all the things that we talked about.
And yes, you know, you definitely had a lot of these skills going into love and science, but I think when we shine a light and actually dedicate some time to, you know, looking at that, that then we transform and then that transformed version of ourselves gets to be the parent to the soul or soul who's meant to be ours.
Um, yeah.
So thank you for sharing that.
I wanted to ask one last question.
So if somebody was like on the fence right now and you know, they're doing fertility treatments or fertility, you know, the female physician patient treatments are not working or getting frustrated.
They're ready to throw in the towel.
Just like you were a year ago.
What would you say to them from your perspective now about love and science and how that helped you in your journey?
What would you say to them if they're like, I just don't know if I want to spend the time, the money, you know, I've got so much else going on.
What's your perspective now?
I think when I first met you, I had a lot of like decision fatigue.
Like I was, I was, I was struggling a lot.
I think, um, I think I was trying to decide like if we've already lost one MBO and I only have three left and I want, you know, this many kids, you know, should I go through another retrieval being 41 years old and you know, knowing that the stats on that are not great and the stress of trying to figure out how am I going to do this, how am I going to do this with my work schedule, you know, and can I do this and that gets very exhausting when you've already been through so many, when you've already been through so, so much.
So if, if you're, if you're on the fence about love and science, I would say that it was the biggest thing for me was being able to recenter my own thoughts because I was, it was the decision fatigue, the, the devastating news of, of having lost the genetically normal embryo after multiple miscarriages, you know, and not knowing where even to go, like not, not having any idea where to go and there's only so much you can get from your REI.
There's so much more that you can get from a program like this because it's, I mean, who's a lot of us have really, you know, supportive husbands, but they, they don't, they're not able to talk to you the way that you are able to talk to us and, and it's writing down different things and, and trying to understand why you even, why you're even thinking about a lot of the things and trying to delve out, you know, what the source of, of, of many of the thoughts that are running in, running you into this like major negativity because all you know is failure and you were really able to recenter that for me and pull out a lot of the, you know, the, the deeper feelings and the deeper emotions about, you know, how are we going to take all of this information and move forward in a positive way?
And, and then also being okay with like, if this doesn't ever work out, like we have many things to be, you know, to be happy about and, and, you know, just that type of thing. And, and I don't think that you can get that. You can't get it from, I don't think you can get it from the regular office visit with a, with, with your normal REI doctor. So that's what I would say. I would say it was definitely worth it in many, many ways, just to get emotionally back on track when you, I'd imagine that there's not many people that, that people reach out to you when they're, when they're very, when they're devastated and you did a really good job with me, bringing me out of that and keeping, keeping me centered as I move forward and try it again without as much negativity.
Oh, that's so beautiful. And I, I mean, you have, you had and have so much courage. I watched you do the hard things, face the feelings, you know, sort of carve away the thoughts that weren't serving you in such a way. You're so brave. And I think anybody who's gone on this journey knows what it's like. And just to see step by step by step, once the embryo connected, and then we got the news and, you know, just sort of inching forward, making forward progress and the delivery. And, you know, now you're a mom, like, it's just, it's so very beautiful to see. And just to, to have been your guide throughout that part. I mean, I just, I will be infinitely grateful for that. So thank you.
And thank you for sharing your story with, with this community. There's really nothing more powerful. Is there anything else you want to say before we head off?
It's okay if you don't, because I know you've got to get back to your little ones who are absolutely beautiful.
Thank you for all that you do. I know life gets crazy and I don't have a chance to say it enough, but thank you for all that you do for our community.
And it's, it's amazing once you start talking about your journey, or if you, if you even mentioned that there's even some part of, of IVF that you've been through, it's amazing how, you know, how common infertility really is and in, in our, in our, as women physicians, it's very, very, very common. And so it's, and the community that you provide also is a, is a big, is a big supportive, you know, it's, it's a supportive community that makes you feel like you're not alone walking through this because you really aren't.
You aren't. And I always say at the end of our meetings, I say we are stronger together and I a hundred percent stand by that. So thank you again. Go back to your beautiful children.
Until the next time I love this. Thanks again. Thanks for sharing. Bye.
Bye.
