May It Be So: A Personal Account of the Fertility Journey with Dr. Chrissie Ott
My Loves, this conversation is going to change your life. Dr. Chrissie Ott is a Med Peds physician who spent nearly a decade on the path to conceiving her daughter. She generously shares her story with us, and I know you will see yourself in her story.
Among many important topics, we discuss:
suffering and transformation
joy
isolation
persistence
comical moments along the way
energy work
lost friendships
surrender
the existential relief of finally receiving her little one
You just need to listen. Like I said, you will never be the same.
Dr. Chrissie Ott is a physician coach, Med-Peds doc, speaker, and the human behind Joy Point Solutions — a space for people doing meaningful work to reconnect with what lights them up. She helps clients untangle from burnout, come home to their values, and reclaim delight in both their lives and leadership.
She’s the host of the Solving for Joy podcast and the leader of the Physician Coaching Summit, an event that brings coaches, clinicians, and changemakers together to share wisdom, build connection, and reimagine what’s possible in medicine and beyond.
Chrissie’s work blends neuroscience, creativity, and soul — with a healthy dose of curiosity and a sense of humor along the way.
Guest Links:
As always, please keep in mind that this is my perspective and nothing in this podcast is medical advice.
If you found this conversation valuable, book a consult call with me using this link:
https://calendly.com/loveandsciencefertility/discovery-call
Also, be sure to check out our website: loveandsciencefertility.com
Follow us on social media:
IG: www.instagram.com/loveandsciencefertility
FB: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61553692167183
Please don’t let infertility have the final word. We are here to take the burden from you so that you can achieve your goal of building your family with confidence and compassion. I’m rooting for you always.
In Gratitude,
Dr. Erica Bove
Transcript:
Hello, my loves and welcome back to the Love and Science podcast.
I am just so excited and honored to have one of my friends and colleagues, Dr. Chrissy Ott, come today and be our guest as we talk about all things fertility. She is a physician coach, which as you know, in my world, just like really close to home, right? Because I think we need strong, beautiful physician coaches who are healing our world. And she also has a long fertility journey herself, which she has so generously offered to share with us. So I think, you know, listen, please listen, because I know what she has to say will resonate deeply. And I just want to share some of her accolades by way of introduction. So Dr. Chrissy Ott, she has her MD.
Like I said before, she is a physician coach. She's also the founder of Joy Point Solutions.
And she's also the host of the Solving for Joy podcast, which I was sort of grateful to be a guest on that podcast. She's the leader of the Physician Coaching Summit, which I'm hoping to go to in November. So please stay tuned. But just to give an even more detailed sort of introduction, she is a double board certified med-pedes doctor. So that means that she is double board certified as an internist and as a pediatrician, which as we know, on the fertility journey, anytime we're working with children, it can be very difficult. And she is the human behind the Joy Point Solutions, a space for people doing meaningful work to reconnect with what lights them up. I will also share that we had a very joyful moment right before we have Don, because she has a tradition of helping people ground themselves before and we were dancing and singing and it was so much fun. So I'm grateful just her presence creates joy. She helps clients untangle from burnout, come home to their values and reclaim delight in both their lives and their leadership. And her podcast is amazing. I can't say enough about it. And she really is in this world as a healing force to help us all continue to do the work that we do in a way that continues to give us life instead of steal it. So Dr. Chrissy, it's so, so wonderful to have you here today.
Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I am a enormous fan of Dr. Erica Bove, Love and Science Fertility. I said this on our previous podcast recording, but if I had a time machine and I could send you back to myself from about 15 years ago, oh, what, what a benefit that would have been. So I'm so grateful for you in the world doing this work, supporting people in what can be one of the most difficult chapters of our life. I'm so happy that you're here. And I, you know, on your website, I was looking at it before we hopped on it, like talks about where we're stuck, right? And I think about, you know, those of us who are physician coaches, it's usually born out of some struggle that we have had that, you know, it's sort of the wounded healer. It's like, well, how can we then take what we've learned and continue to give back and help people? And so I would love to hear a little bit before we, you know, dive into your fertility journey, just a little bit about what motivated you to become a coach and the work that you're doing, like in this moment in the world. Absolutely. I would love to share. Yes. One of my like inner mantras is may no suffering go untransformed. If we go through something difficult, let us find the gems inside that cave so that we can bring them back out to our people. Like may they be of benefit, may they not be for naught. So, you know, I came to medicine, having been a professional dancer and a massage therapist and a Pilates instructor. So I kind of came with a wellness infrastructure and came to medicine thinking, Oh, this is not good, like so healthy. I kind of want to like actually bring some stuff to it as well as learn the art and science of medicine. And so I, I actually formed my first wellness group called the wellness advocates, my first year of medical school. And, you know, well being work has just been in my DNA since then, like with different levels of expression at different periods of time. But I've been through my own cycles of burnout. And while I was leading well being work in my organization, we were able to get 300 clinicians through a 12 week coaching program that transformed lives and careers. And around that same time, I was just like, Oh, coaching is my future. I have no idea what that means. At the time, I was just like, I just feel the yes in my body. And I do not intellectually understand what I will do with this. But I didn't have to because the universe worked it out for me. That is so beautiful. So, you know, I don't think I realized this before you actually went in with eyes. I don't want to say wide open, but mostly open. Because you're like, Whoa, like this place is already messed up. And I think I have something to contribute. Whereas so many of us go in and we're like, you know, sort of rose colored glasses. And then we're like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, what the heck is going on here?
Right. So you had that foresight. You're like, I might have something to bring to this universe.
Absolutely. I mean, it might have been naive, or even maybe, like arrogant, I would say, potentially like, reformer vibes, you know, like both naive and a little bit egoic, perhaps, but also like true to my mission, like I just needed to bring it. I just didn't have it all developed yet at, you know, 20 something years old. That's amazing. That's her, right? She was like, Did you say? Well, yeah, I think we need some of that youthful energy spirit, no matter how old we are to be like, I can change the world. Because if you look at who really has, you know, these big movements over time, and people who have really given and transformed, it's, it's usually this combination of contemplation and action, right? We contemplate and we sort of have this awareness of like, what's going on? And how can I contribute with my unique gifts? And then, and then acting, I mean, that's the beautiful thing is an acting in the world. And then, like you said, your own cycles of burnout, like as we keep going, it's like, okay, how can we continue to fill the well so that we can continue to give it because the more we transform, the more transformation still can happen. And it's, it's like this beautiful cycle of expansion, like a chain reaction. And the words that just dropped in my brain are like, you kind of have to have a little bit of idiotic optimism to do this work. And I do not mean idiotic to be insulting either to myself or to anyone else in well being work in medicine, I just am like, they're the rational brain would find this idiotic. But the fire inside is like, Oh, no, this will, this is how I will spend my time.
It is that important. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. And I'm so glad that you're doing this work.
And so tell us so today in this moment, the work that you're doing with coaching, I want to make sure that our listeners can hear about that, because so many of my people are trying to, you know, burn the candle at all of the ends, right, this three dimensional candle we have, and and just trying to work as physicians and, you know, undergo these fertility treatments, like, like, tell us what you're doing in this moment in time.
Absolutely. So my coaching work is inside Joy Point Solutions. And I work one on one in this hybrid coaching model where we do some group calls, and we do one on one work, you know, as long as people actually want to do this work. And I've been doing that in this model for a couple of years. It was inspired by my experience with the 300 clinicians that went through 12 week program where there were small groups, and there was didactic learning, and there was one on one.
And I found that the combination of those things was so grounding, because the group work actually helps us realize it's not about me, I'm not the only one suffering here, I actually can see my experience validated in other people, other people who I admire other people who I thought maybe had it all together and were exempt from this particular flavor of suffering. So there's so much importance in that validation. And then the didactic part is like, there is actually so much to learn and unlearn. And coaches have been immersing themselves in that and often find new and unique ways to language that. And when you are a physician, it is a little bit challenging to find what you need in a coaching relationship that is not somebody who knows and has walked the walk. Not impossible. There are many beautiful coaches for physicians who are not physicians.
But for my, in my opinion, that commonality helps us to suspend our disbelief and step into this co creative therapeutic relationship that is not therapy, you know, to expand and explore our own creative wisdom to find our own internal compass and take small steps toward the life that we actually want for ourselves. The one that has time freedom that has values, alignment, action, alignment, and enough white space to enjoy what we've created.
I dropped. I mean, that sounds so familiar, because that is like exactly what I am trying to do at Love and Science, right is to give people back their freedom. And I think freedom means something a little different to each person. But I think there's these commonalities that persist. And I wanted to sort of transition to talk a little bit about the fertility journey, because that is a space where sometimes it's really hard to feel free. It's really hard to feel like there's a direction, it can be like, feel very disorienting. And I'm really on a mission to help women professionals, mostly physicians, mostly physicians are the women who find me to work with me to help them find freedom, even in the face of uncertainty and not knowing how it will all turn out. And I trust that a lot of the work that you're doing now had its seedlings and maybe foundation in some of what you learned on your fertility journey, right? Like, yeah, obviously your experience in medicine, but also that giant experience in your life that spanned like over a decade. Did you, I mean, like, I mean, it just sounds like it was really, really giant in your life. So if you would be so generous, I'd love to understand a little bit more about like how you found yourself in this situation, what you tried, what worked, what didn't work. And I'd love to hear your story for the for the Love and Science Group.
Yes, it would be my pleasure to share. And, you know, as I reach out through these sound waves to people who are in the midst of this journey, I just first of all, my heart is with you.
First of all, my heart is with you. It is so real what you are going through, whether you have had pregnancy losses, whether you have had just trouble getting pregnant or sustained pregnant, whether you have had conflict with loved ones about it, my heart is with you. It is so hard.
It is it's another one of those situations where there almost has to be a bit of irrational hope, you know, and so I carried irrational hope for years and years. And so if your intuition, if your inner voice says that you are a parent who is not yet connected with their child, I am here to validate that with and for you. And then just add my voice to the chorus of people who are rooting for you. May it be so much. Yeah, maybe so. There's so many people listening here in the thick of it right now. And so maybe so. That is right. Yeah. So one first thing to know is that I'm married to a woman. And so our primary fertility challenge was that there is no sperm in our relationship. However, I have had a previous accidental pregnancy in my early 20s.
That did not grow to be a human. And I thought, Oh, well, you know, that was just a one off oopsie.
So I should be very fertile. My mom had five children. My grandmother had nine children.
Like, I'm like, we got this, right? So we decided immediately after we got married in 2005 to start trying for a pregnancy. And we tried with a close relative of my wife's thinking DNA link, beautiful, amazing. This person was totally on board, loved both of us was like, I'd love to support you in this way, like probably did not understand all the implications of how weird that would be in the future. But the yes was so, so kind and so, so sweet and so, so there. So we went to a hotel, we rented a room. We Oh my gosh, I brought a speculum. Don't ever give your partner a speculum unless they have been trained in speculum use my there's so many like dark comedy moments along the way. I hope I can and like do them justice as I tell the dark story of these years. So anyway, we inseminated in a hotel room, we all high fived. And we popped a bottle of champagne, I propped my legs up on the wall. And we were like, got this like done. I was like strategically planning to try to have this baby at the very end of residency. So this was like we were in the zone, we were in like just the right timeframe. So I spoiler alert, we did not get pregnant the very first time we tried. And then we proceeded to do at home insemination with the same donor.
In various comical situations, including camping, we had this very special tent off away from the others. We had appearances of my beloved donor at the NICU call room in the hospital because that's when I was ovulating was I was on NICU. So I'm can you imagine, we did it at his apartment, we did it at our apartment. I mean, like there were so many hilarious things. And he would come out with this, you know, we had like a urine sample cup from the hospital. And he'd come out and he'd hold it up to the light like it was Simba and go, and we would both be sort of like low key gagging like, Oh, gross. Anyway, I think we did, you know, like, maybe eight months ago, the details are a little foggy now. But this was all the way back in 2005. Our child was born in 2013. So that's how long this journey was. When we stopped trying at that point, it was like, okay, now we're outside the zone, I would be potentially having this baby after we move across the country for my first attending job. So let's take a pause. So we came back to it, you know, after we had taken a little break. And then we were like, Okay, so we're no longer going to be doing home insemination like that, we're going to now go to a sperm bank. And then we had the whole experience of trying to pick out a donor from a sperm bank, which if you have not ever had to do that, let me let me tell you, you are choosing sperm based on fairly superficial factors about the donor, which feels weird. I mean, we are attracted to people based on their appearance, their personality, their vibes.
And so sometimes you get to listen to an interview. Sometimes you I mean, you always will get some family history and educational history. And that was a whole like side adventure of like looking through these online catalogs and like saving this favorite or that favorite and my wife is Mexican American. And so we were looking for a Latino donor. And then like there were specifics about like this Latino donor is, you know, Puerto Rican. And this one is Dominican. And we were like, it's not the same thing. Anyway, we had many, many laughs and just poignant moments along along this way. We even took the classic baby pictures with the nitrogen tank in the back seat buckled in. I mean, we were we were keeping joy alive. Because again, like this was still like maybe 2007 eight. We didn't know we were still gonna be on the ship for like five more years.
Right, right. Or more. So after the first few didn't work at home, we went to IUIs. Now, I know most of you have probably had IUIs. I'm gonna bet that not many of you have had 17 IUIs. And nobody recommended that that was my irrational hope. That was also my perseverance.
That was also my stubbornness. We had IUIs at home with the naturopath. We had IUIs, of course, in the office when we finally connected with a fertility doc. Oh my gosh, there was this one moment we were still in Houston, we saw a fertility clinic for the first time. And the nurse came in and told us we were pregnant based on my urine. She had mixed up the freaking rooms.
Oh no.
That we had the whole surge of like all of the neurotransmitters and endorphins and like, oh my god, are we even ready for this? It was like being told we were accidentally pregnant. Right. When we've been trying, it was like what? Anyway, that was an interesting moment. Absolutely awful.
Yeah. So we did the IUIs, we did a variety of IUIs. We did more than anybody would recommend. And we finally went, okay, we will do IVF. So we did our first IVF cycle in 2011. You know, those numbers that you're focused on right now, people, my friends, those numbers, how many eggs, what your dose of hormones were, you know, whether you did other fertility enhancing, like oral meds to enhance ovulation beforehand. I forgotten all of them. I just want you to know that someday these things that feel like you will never stop knowing those numbers, they finally go away. I mean, not that I was wanting them to go away. I just can't believe that I don't remember. Right. Or like how many eggs were harvested and how many fertilized, how many grew to blastocyst. I actually am not confident of those numbers. I think, you know, at the end of the day, we only had one that was one or two that were implantable out of our first cycle. And so we implanted them and one of them did grow. And when we went for a six week ultrasound, there was no heart. It was so sorry. And it was, you know, we'd have really good HCG numbers arising. So it was a gut punch. It was severely disorienting. I was supposed to go from that ultrasound to the hospital to round on two newborns. That was not this couple's first child. And I called the hospitalist team and said, please, can you round? I cannot. I cannot right now. And I got covered. And that was wonderful.
I remember I had a night shift that night and I had to call and say, I'm having a miscarriage.
I can't work tonight. And I don't, I don't know that any loss in my whole life has been that crushing. But it's invisible, except that it wasn't for us. We were, you know, I'm an, I'm an external processor and our struggle was our hobby, our passion, our everything. So many people do not choose to share their journey, but we shared it with a lot of people. We have a big community.
We're both very social humans. And so there was none of this waiting till, you know, the end of first trimester to, to share. We were like, no, we were in the irrational hope, idiotic optimism side of things. So everybody knew we were pregnant with, like almost everybody, which meant we had to tell almost everyone that moment, you know, that was really, really hard.
And I'm going to take a little side journey here because the worst part of this in, and I think that's true. I mean, losing our pregnancy was horrendous, but we were super close to two couples. Like they had lived in our house when they were waiting for their house to be ready. Like we have fences with them like every holiday together, like chosen family.
Chosen family, yeah.
Every Friday dinner, like we were as tight as people can be in my, you know, that was my experience of the relationship. And both of these couples espoused, they did not want children at the time. So they did not have a deep understanding of our fertility journey.
But, you know, our, our thought was that they supported us because they loved us. And when you love somebody, you want for them what they want for themselves, as long as it's healthy.
Right? Well, it turned out that they had been befuddled or confused or in judgment about our journey for a lot of the way.
And when we lost this pregnancy, they didn't know how to be there. I had a, I had my own manual for them as best best friends that they, like the correct way to support us was to show up on our doorstep at whatever time you got off work with hugs and maybe a bottle of wine and some Cheetos.
And like you stay and hold space. That's how I would want that supported. Bring, bring food, hold space. Right? Right. And they were not able to do that, I think, because they felt so conflicted and in judgment. And I am, I am doing some, some educated guessing, but also some like, I can't be in their brain. Right. I think that they're good people. I think that they had confusion.
I think they were really focused on how much of our energy was focused on getting pregnant.
They probably had thoughts like, why don't you just adopt? Which is, you know, it's a beautiful way to make a family. But until that is your impetus, that is your inspiration. It is not appropriate to suggest. Right. It's just not, that's not a helpful thing. Everybody knows it exists.
They will reach for it when it is their time, if it becomes their time ever. Right. Not a solution to what we're feeling when we're in the midst of a fertility journey directly. No. Anyway, what, what evolved from there was, you know, we received so much support and a lot of people asked, how can you help? And this was 2011. It was before GoFundMe was a thing. We wrote a letter to my community in response to all the outpouring of love and, you know, shared a little bit about the, the experience, you know, it was hard to do. And because people asked, how can we help? I shared, you know, part of this has been the financial devastation of it. I mean, when all is said and done, friends, we spent $70,000 out of pocket. And that's a, you know, that's modest today.
So it was kind of like a GoFundMe. It was like, if you feel called, this is one way that you could support. And for me, it was a super vulnerable growth step to actually open myself to receiving.
It was a different choice than I would have made before that experience changed me. I was aligned with that growth. I felt like I am consciously opening myself to receive. So it's a vulnerable thing is what I'm really receiving is very vulnerable. It really is very tender. What poured into that space was, you know, $20 here, $50 here. Another couple who we were like, in a loving friendship with, but not that that close, we're like, we were going to buy a new television, we're going to wait. And like, here's your here's $300. Oh, my gosh. Exactly. Like just really, really generous and humbling. And like, like, I like cross straight on the floor humbling.
Sweet, touching. Every tiny gesture made us feel the people behind us made us feel touched, literally, like they had our backs, they had our shoulders, they were like, we love you, we see you as parents, we want this for you. And here's a tiny bit of energy to like boost your sales. Right? My sweet, two couple friends felt so conflicted, they could not participate. Like, they couldn't even drop a 20 on it, because they felt that would have been like, out of integrity for them. And then I learned later on that they also were like, having thoughts about, like the fact that we had purchased a really nice car in the months before, like we traded in two not so nice cars to get a nice car, because we needed one goddamn thing to go well for us. It was like, can I please just have one thing, right? That is reliable and a yes for me. Right. And we bought an Audi guys, it was like my dream car to have an Audi Q5. It was so, so special to us.
And the fact that we were getting so, so judged by the people closest to us who had the first row seat in, you know, in our experience was like, Oh, that's so harsh. I don't think it matters at all. I mean, I mean, thanks for sharing all the details, but like, I don't think it matters at all.
What kind of car it was, it was just the lack of support, the judgment, like, here's the thing, like, and I know, you know, this intimately in so many of my, this is one of the things I coach on the most is like the unsupportive friend, the friend who might be well-meaning, but just can't get on board and says insensitive things. And it's just like so painful all the time. And when we have a judgmental space, it is not a safe space. Like those two cannot coexist. And so what I'm hearing you say is that you, your, your safe space has actually expanded in many ways. And when it became clear that this, like these chosen family, as many of us for various reasons find, you know, even our actual family sometimes that there's judgments and things like that was no longer a safe space for you. So then how did you navigate that piece of it? How did you protect yourselves to keep going to honor yourselves in the context of this very, like horrible and sad situation?
We lived in heartbreak. Ah, grief. We lived in heartbreak. I had my first and maybe only like actual panic attack. I remember waking up, I remember the morning it was August 1st, like I probably will never forget the date because I woke up to this letter. And we'd had a couple letter exchanges, email exchanges, trying to work it out. And they were like, you know, and like I had accusations for them. They had accusations for us. And one of the partners did not want to communicate by in writing. And so I think that it was an offense to them that, that there wasn't up anyway. So I received an email that said, you know, basically this ends our friendship. Here's how to return our key. Oh, like, that was it. That was my like moment. And the place that I went in, in my own like constitution was, I got so soft and tender. I mean, I had a little panic attack. I had a heartbreak. I feel like this friendship loss was the size of a divorce. We lived two doors down from one of the couples still. And we're like friendly neighbors, but we used to be the best of friends. It's fine now. It's been many years, but it was just like having the rug pulled out in such a way, it gave me deep compassion for other people's pain in relationship and relationship loss. I just wanted to protect the whole world from this kind of heartbreak. That was like my generative response. And I got a tattoo that is here. And it says, after the final go, there comes a yes. And on that yes, the future world depends.
Oh, wow. I can see it. And my wife got a beautiful tattoo on her leg that is this hiking scene that says a long road makes for a patient heart.
Wow. I mean, we just let it change us. Right. Is what I would say. Like we just let it freaking change us permanently. We surrendered. We also did things that I don't love. Like there were friends, like there was like collateral damage was like, if you are going to be close with them, I don't feel I can be close with you. Right. I don't think that I would describe that as the most mature choice, but it is what I had at the time. And that's what I feel about them. You know, like I refuse to think of them as like bad other. I think that's what they had at the time. And it wasn't adequate to stay related. Yeah. And I mean, I think that like you were trying to carve out your safe space and being in a relationship with anybody associated with them was not going to be safe for you. And I mean, it makes total sense. And also, and we've talked before about energy work. I know that you did a lot of energy work as it pertains the fertility journey. Like I think that when we have a toxic job or a toxic friendship, or we have, you know, maybe a parent who's not supportive, we have to really honor our experience of that and say like, this is not serving me. This is not serving my fertility journey. This is not a safe space. I cannot be fully myself into this context.
I'm not at my highest vibration in this context. And my greatest good will not come to me in this context. Like, I just think that we have to be somewhat unapologetic. And I say that understanding that there can be tremendous guilt associated with these decisions, but we have to do what's best for us in these times. And I think your story really does. Obviously, it was not easy to make the decisions that you did, but you had to do that to move forward. It's clear to me.
Yes. I think seeing it from like a bird's eye view now, I needed to clear our surroundings of any ambivalence. There was ambivalence towards our journey. If there is no thank you to ambivalence when we are like waist deep in the muck of an infertility battle. And I don't really love like framing it as a battle list at the time, but in the moment, that's where it was like all my therapy sessions were about my identity in infertility and my shaking my fist at the sky and rounding on newborns, healthy newborns being born to, you know, substance abuse moms and having like, you know, they have their own stories. They're separate from mine. I had to close my primary care practice to newborns, except for those that were born to existing families, because I could not do it anymore. I was, I was in judgment of every decision somebody else made that I didn't feel aligned with because I just wanted my own downturn. Right. I just wanted my own day. I felt entitled to it. I felt deserving of it. I felt like I put in what I should have to put in like all of these painful thoughts around shoulds and deserving and entitlement were lit up in my brain and body system.
And yes, so much energy work. I mean, hands on energy work, distance work, you know, psychic readings, so much acupuncture, a trip to Peru with multiple ceremonies with shamans that I feel like we're an instrumental part of us getting there. Every single elimination diet one could possibly imagine, you know, off caffeine, on caffeine, off alcohol, off sugar, like, God, the neuroses can take us so far down that road. I remember doing an IUI once and then eating so much pineapple afterwards, because there's like a rumor that pineapple will break down the lucidum pelo.
Yes, I know the REI is shaking her.
Just so thanks if you can see my face right now, but now it's like the beet juice and the like this and that. And it's just like, the things we tell ourselves, but you were, you were, quote unquote, compliant. I mean, you did every single thing that was there was any suggestion to do that would make this better for you. Yeah, I hear you. Okay, after the Peru trip, which I'm not pooh pooh-ing any of this, by the way, but right, right, right, the most interesting slash crazy things that we did after our ceremonies in Peru was that the shamans gave me a concoction to drink, which was 12 raw jungle eggs in a two liter soda bottle, about a half bottle of wine, lemon juice, a fox's tooth. Yes, a fox's tooth. I'm absorbing this right now.
And a ichorro, which is the like energetic medicine in song. So there's like energy like sung into this concoction to kind of like, bring it the intention. I was to drink this like wine and raw egg mixture three times a day. And we were at the end of our trip. So I actually had to like smuggle it into my satchel back into the States, which is basically a big no no. But I was compliant as long as I could until I was like back at the hospital doing a night shift. And not to get too graphic. But let's just say most people would have given me an IV. During my shift, I knew what was going on with my body. Oh, I know. So Manila, do you think?
Probably most likely. Yeah. I'm the one.
It sounds awful. I mean, this is the level of willingness. Right? Yes. And the scientists brain. Okay, like the suspension of disbelief slash desperation was as high as I can imagine it going.
Like I would have done leeches. Like what? No, it's clear to me. I mean, it's clear to me. So, so wow. So then, so you did every single thing and then some that could have been done. And it still was not happening. This is what I'm hearing. So it catch me up to the fertility journey. Yes.
So after our trip to Peru, I think we had been inseminating with a new fresh donor at home for three months. We had decided intuitively, like actually, this technology is not what we need.
Our primary struggle is lack of fresh sperm, who is a donor that would engage in this project with us. And we connected with a beautiful dear friend who said yes to us, and would come over every other day during my fertility window and make a donation in our guest room, we'd be like, okay, wipe your history on the iPad. We don't want to see that. But it's so funny. And he would tell us like, Oh, now I'm Pavlovian trained. Like I start to parallel park in front of your house.
And I began to get an erection. He's like, it's going to be awkward at dinner parties in the future.
I just need a few minutes. This man was so selfless. I should also say that at one point we put an ad on Craigslist and met some people who were willing. But they were 100% creepy.
Yeah, you got to be careful. Yeah. And you're not recommend do not think you're in one of our previous conversations, you were asking about like, you know, 2025 and what's happening. And now there's this there's different organizations that do facilitate this in ways that, you know, are in accordance with guidelines. And so we have we have evolved. It's not quite there. I spent even last week in order amount of time trying to sort out something for a queer couple. Anyway, you know, we are we are getting better. And yet, it sounds like this wonderful man came into your lives. He was willing. You were receptive and open and tell tell me more. So then what happened?
So it was our 10th cycle with him. It was about six cycles after the Peru trip that we got pregnant with Isa, our now 11 and a half year old daughter. And the pregnancy was smooth. And the birth was, you know, I was 41 by this time we had started when I was 32 or 33. But I had her at 41. And she's here and she's safe. You know, she was a c-section baby. I was like, you know what, whatever at this point, take her get this baby safely out of me. I could not have that existential moment of relief until I had that little girl in my arms. That makes total sense. And we began to try for a second with our same donor and we were able to get pregnant two more times. But neither of those stayed around. So we had, we had additional pregnancies after Isa, but we lost two more pregnancies. And so the fertility journey extended, you know, a couple of years longer. And, you know, we really thought we would have two kids at some point. But I want to say, for me, the existential pain of not getting to the first child, like the one that makes me quote unquote, a mom, a parent, right? Versus having the second, there was a qualitative difference in grieving that loss, because there was not a full on identity attached to the loss. I'm still a mom.
Not to, you know, devalue future losses, but just that was, that's an important part of my experience. Right now. And thank you for sharing that. I wasn't aware of that part of your journey.
I don't think it came up before. And just thinking about, you know, we grieve the loss of each pregnancy loss, right? So every time it happens, there's the rise of the emotions, the sadness, that how do I resolve the stamp thing? You know, like, it's just like, you know, do I wait? Do I take meds? Do I take, you know, do surgery, all the things. And then, and then it happens again. And then, and so it's, it's grieving the loss of each pregnancy and then grieving the loss of the family that you saw, you know, back in the day, you know, when you envision your family, there is an identity piece there, I think. What I'm hearing you say is that it was a sort of in perspective to the former.
It sort of paled in comparison, although I also just want to honor how painful that also must have been to, to go through that and to grieve that and to be like, okay, well, you know, here we are. And then when a pause happens, that's another grief and everything. Well, maybe it hasn't happened. I don't know. I'm doing the math. Yes. No, it has happened. It has happened. And my child would ask me as a young one for another sibling, you know, and like, and that is so painful, right?
Tenderness of like, Oh, babe, I wish I could have, you know, and I tried, you know, like I did my best. Like you're not old enough to hear all of the details, but I know. And I think people have so many, I mean, I hear this in terms of like child spacing. Oh, like I need to have my kids closer. Oh, my little one's going to grow up so lonely if they don't have a sibling and, and all the layers of, you know, we talked about suffering as the sort of the, we don't want to not transform suffering.
Like all of the stories that we put on our own pain that then amplify the pain and turn it into suffering. It's like, who actually said that that only children are lonely? Who actually said that there's this ideal child spacing? Like, I think we need to be very aware of the things that we put on ourselves. And, you know, I'm not saying that you did this at all. I'm saying as I think about my other patients and clients and, and what I hear and just like, look at your story. Like you went through like nearly a decade of fertility treatments. Like I've never heard of so many inseminations. Like truly I'm, I've been doing this for every decade myself. Like, like you have this a purlative, my friends, like the most number of inseminations to see.
What a patch for my Girl Scout badge.
I know. And just like thinking about the different phases. And, you know, one thing I love if you would feel comfortable sharing is like, I think you mentioned that there was like a turning point season in your journey kind of around the time of all the raw eggs. Like, can you share a little bit, you know, just, I think it's clear what kept you going was like your deepest why and this sort of this hope, right? This hope that it would happen eventually. And then, you know, I think, you know, as, as we go on, it's kind of like Frodo in the ring, like it gets harder and harder.
And it sounds like something really shifted for you in terms of welcoming little Isa into your, into your world. If you'd be able to share, I'd be so grateful.
We began to make peace with the possibility of defeat. We began to, you know, grieve in advance and, you know, anticipatory grief of the possibility of not achieving what we hoped to achieve and having our, our biological child. And we were close friends with many people, of course, who were on a fertility journey. And some of them became families through adoption. And we were over the moon elated for them and, you know, have zero judgment for anybody's path. We cracked the door open, you know, as I described earlier, that was not what was feeling intuitively like our path. But there was a moment of like absolute humility was even in that same month of, of our pregnancy, I believe, where I had the questionnaire paperwork, which is like the first thing you do is write essays about why you want to be a parent, what your philosophy of parenting is, and what your childhood was like, things like that. What does it mean to you? And, you know, I don't think I had ever actually been invited to do that. Even though I'd been with fertility professionals and therapists too, along the way. God, I wish I'd had a fertility coach.
But what happened was I began to open that door energetically. And not knowing if we would walk through it, but just saying it's not closed. Let us begin to make peace with either being, you know, very involved aunties to our niece, and let us like move forward, saying, Okay, universe, I don't know what's going to happen here. We have done absolutely everything we can to make this happen.
And if it's not in the cards, like, how can we graciously flow with this? Also, let us investigate what it might be like to explore adoption. So as I mean, there's so much lore about the family that adopts a child and then immediately becomes pregnant on their own. And sperm at home, by the way, right, with no intervention, just like the thing that hasn't happened for years and years and years finally effortlessly. It's annoying lore. And, you know, there's some kind of Faustian bargain or something like I will do it. I'll do whatever. Anyway, there was something about that timing that does feel related to me as I look back on it, that there was something about opening to all possibilities that might have unlocked something energetically that was keeping my reproductive function a little bit on lockdown or a little bit impermeable.
Yeah. And thank you so much for sharing that. And we will never know. Although I will tell you, and this is maybe it's my empath nature, or the fact that I've seen so many people who are near nearly at the end of their fertility journeys, and then they decided to consider donor egg or they decided to consider a gestational carrier. And then it happened like, and I just I can't explain it like logically, I can't, I cannot explain it with any existing science, but I feel it is real to my core. And, you know, I think that, you know, my experience has been that the people who leave the most doors open are the ones where that soul who's supposed to be theirs, that child comes to them. And I, you know, your story is so powerful. And the persistence and the resilience, and I hate that word resilience, because it's used against the medicine, but I mean it in its like most pure form, like the commitment, the, the passion, the, the pain, the connection with your wife, like I just I think of all when people ask me about this work, I say it is one giant love story, right? So you can look at Isa and be like, I feel that I loved you so much, like, and I know she's 11. So maybe there's age appropriate times and things that have awareness, I know. But I just think this is just a giant love story. And you are willing and you are open and you did the work on yourself to, to welcome her in. And so, you know, with all that being said, you know, if there's somebody right now, because it's like, it's so, I'm so glad that you're on the other side of it and can share the messy middle, because I think so many times you're just like, Oh, well, this is my pretty package. And this is what happened. And it all worked out. And it'll work out for you. Like, it's just like this Pollyanna grossness that makes me want to vomit. So from a very authentic space, my listeners are in the struggle right now, right? So, you know, the negative pregnancy test with the only embryo, the, you know, the sort of failed insemination is not knowing what the next step is.
And to be going to freaking baby showers, y'all know, your friends fucking baby showers, how much grace seriously do we have when we put ourselves in those situations over and over again? I mean, I'm sending you love and strength. You're not alone. We're like squeezing your hand as you're like plastic smile on your face. Like of the appropriate also gutting. It might be a really good day to just say, Oh, God, a stomach flu. Yeah. And all the stupid people at work who keep talking about their pregnancy announcements and they're, you know, like they come back postpartum, they're complaining, like it is just like this insidious, like it's like the air that we breathe.
And so what, what can you say from the most authentic space, which is, you know, that's all you do is authenticity, right? Like, what, what words of wisdom do you have for people who are in the thick of it right now? Don't do it alone. Don't be alone with it. Because when you're alone with it, you will believe your less helpful thoughts, whether they are about yourself, your partner, your friends, even your clinicians, like don't do any of it alone.
I'm so grateful there were, you know, like forums and discussion boards. That wasn't the kind of accompaniment I'm talking about though. I'm, you know, I'm aware that you have a group that meets weekly every other Friday night, every other Friday night. I, what, what a gift that would have been. Just like, take care of yourself and don't be alone.
I, I personally practice so much external sharing that it's probably too much for many people, which I respect. I'm really grateful because a friend who was pregnant would know not to complain about their pregnancy in front of me. Right. They would, they would have known to selectively edit some of that in order to not cause harm. But if people don't know, yeah, they will do those things anyway. That's my, that's what comes up. Don't be alone.
Yeah. And a lot of people are resistant to a group format because they're like, Oh, but I'm a massive introvert. I, I am your 180. Like I am your yin, ting, yang. Like I am a massive introvert who's learned to be extroverted to survive in the world. Right.
And I sometimes struggle to find the right words. Like what do I say to that person who is so insensitive? Like, you know, I think for those people who are external processors, like the massive introverts like me have a lot to learn to say, like, what words did you find in that, in that situation? And can I sort of retrofit that to something that might serve my purposes too?
And so I think we all have so much to learn from each other. That's so right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I think it's very validating to hear. And I always say sometimes we even have bucket Fridays, like we actually turn the support group into bucket Friday. And I say, but the point is not just to air the grievances. The point is to say we, the only rule is that we have to help each other, take back each other's power. Like that, that is just like, we're gonna, we're gonna air it because it sucks. It sucks so hard sometimes. What we have to say, like, okay, and how are we going to help this person and how are we going to end people drop from their own experiences?
And it's like, so very beautiful. And I think the pain of isolation is just like, it's the killer.
It's what makes people drop out of treatment. It's what makes people succumb to the judgment of the family members who are the loudest voices in their lives at that point in time. And I think we need to, to armor ourselves against that. And I really do, I think with support of the community community and the healing that happens in the community, it's like, it's like nothing I've ever seen before. And I believe in it fully. It's like slipping each other's secret notes that have like, you know, some, just the right mantra to say when somebody does that, just like you may are not, you may not choose to interact directly with the person who's saying an unthoughtful thing, but you can soothe yourself, right? Find your own capacity in that moment to remind yourself, like, the reality is they have no idea that that's painful to me. And I have my sisters over here who I can communicate with, who I can like have a WhatsApp group with and say, this just happened.
Witness me. Witness my in this moment, because it's not quite right for me to interrupt their right dialogue. And we do that. And you know, I think one thing that is so cool about groups is that we bear the suffering together. And we also celebrate together. I mean, even this morning, as of the day of this recording, we have someone in our group who went to Paris to arrange some flowers, because she's like, screw this, this is not my entire identity. I'm going to do something I love while I'm hanging out and waiting to do another embryo transfer. And so she went to Paris and learned how to arrange flowers. And she sent these stunning pictures of herself with these gorgeous flower arrangements. And anybody who knows me knows I'm obsessed with flowers.
And it's just like infertility does not have the last word. Like, we celebrate these things. And like, everyone's like, wow, that is so beautiful. Like, I want to do something where I can express myself to. Oh, right. We are more full humans as contagious. And so it comes full circle to joy. It really does. And, and again, like, we do not have to be devoid of joy during the process. If anything, joy is an act of defiance to be like, you know, like infertility does not have the last word.
It just doesn't. It is an act of defiance. I am later having a conversation on the podcast with Mary Catherine McDonald, who wrote a book called The Joy Reset. And I am going to just drop that title here for you. Yeah, it's actually, she writes in the preface, this is a dark little book about joy. And it's a lot about like, you know, finding tiny little joys and remembering that they're sitting next to all of the crap in your compost heap. Like that is, that is true. Infertility sucks. And it's true. But also that tiny little rose that you smelled on your walk this morning, but also that perfect Americano that's sitting next to you right now. So, you know, fill in your, your version of tiny little joys. And like, yes, yes, this is true. And it does not negate the rest of this. So true. That's so true. Wow. I am going to listen to this episode over and over.
And I just know that people, I think, you know, I can talk about compassion. I can talk about, you know, persistence and deepest why and all the things. But when you share your story so vulnerably and generously, there's just something so real and that people can connect with as a physician, as a person who, you know, whose deepest why is to become a parent, you know, like, it just, it's so beautiful. And you did it. Like you have Isa, you have your beautiful wife, you, you know, you're still practicing. I'm just, I'm so honored to know you. And your story is so very inspiring. And thank you for sharing. I know so many people are going to benefit and heal from hearing your story. I hope so. I am so glad to share it. And I am so happy that it could possibly be of use. Yes, I am rooting for all of you. And you are so fortunate, whether you are just a listener to the podcast, or you're actually in the program or past participant at Love and Science Fertility. You have stumbled upon such a precious gem and resource.
And I am in awe that you exist and are doing this work. Okay, thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. May it multiply and ripple out great ways to live it. Maybe so.
So I want to make sure people know where to find you. And I will put this all in the show notes.
But please remind us the name of your podcast, your website, like all the things, all the things, Dr. Chrissy. Thank you. The podcast is Solving for Joy, where we talk about both adaptive and maladaptive ways, we are continuously trying to solve this equation. And my other website is joy points solutions.com, where you can find out about how to work with me as a coach, and all the other things. The physician coaching summit.com is the place to learn if you are a physician coach, or a physician who coaches, you know, in your institution, it's faculty like you are coaching, or coaching adjacent. This gathering of humans is going to be so precious.
I will be there. I cannot wait to give you a real in in no way.
Yeah. Thank you for being you. And I am so honored to know you, like I said, and this is the second of third, I guess third of many beautiful and fruitful conversations, my friends.
Thank you for having me. Thank you all for witnessing this story with kindness and compassion. It is. I really hope that it serves. I know it will. Okay, my friends, until the next time.
