From Micronutrients to Mental Health: A Holistic Approach with Dr. Ruth Odoi

Are you at your wits end with seemingly normal test results, however fertility treatments aren't working? Or perhaps you've been told that there are only mild abnormalities, and yet still you're in "the 5%" of people who haven't conceived yet?

In medical school, we were taught that we just needed to diagnose a problem if we wanted to treat it and cure the patient. And yet, the fertility world doesn't often seem to work this way.  

Please join me for a very insightful conversation with Dr. Ruth Odoi, who combines internal medicine with functional medicine to bring about the best patient outcomes. We discuss the following:

• her approach to patients with infertility

• stress reduction

• micronutrients and trace elements

• hormones

• intentionality

• gut health

• chronic fatigue 

• thrivity/vitality

• spirituality and health

Perhaps a more holistic approach could help you and your journey. 

Guest Details: 

Dr. Ruth K. Odoi is a board-certified internal medicine physician with over a decade of experience in clinical practice. After years of seeing women struggle with persistent, unexplained symptoms and receiving little clarity or support through conventional care, Dr. Odoi was led to start Oasis Women's Functional Medicine. A wellness practice focused on helping high-achieving women heal from burnout, hormonal imbalance, and chronic fatigue by uncovering and addressing root causes. This practice reflects her commitment to a more holistic, faith-aligned approach, one that prioritizes personalized care and sustainable healing for women navigating high-stress lives and chronic Illnesses.

http://oasisfunctionalmedicine.com

As always, please keep in mind that this is my perspective and nothing in this podcast is medical advice.

If you found this conversation valuable, book a consult call with me using this link:

https://calendly.com/loveandsciencefertility/discovery-call

Also, be sure to check out our website: loveandsciencefertility.com

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Please don’t let infertility have the final word. We are here to take the burden from you so that you can achieve your goal of building your family with confidence and compassion. I’m rooting for you always.

In Gratitude,

Dr. Erica Bove

Transcript:

Hello, my loves.

Welcome back to the Love and Science podcast.

I am so excited for this conversation today.

I have with me a friend and a colleague, Dr. Ruth Odoi, who is a board certified internal medicine physician, and also the founder of Oasis Women's Functional Medicine, where she helps women to take back their lives, right?

You see a lot of themes between love and science and Oasis.

Dr. Ruth founded Oasis Women's Functional Medicine to help high achieving women heal from burnout, hormonal imbalance, and chronic fatigue by uncovering and addressing root causes.

Her practice reflects her commitment to a more holistic, faith aligned approach, one that prioritizes personalized care and sustainable healing for women navigating high stress lives and chronic illnesses.

And I will reaffirm that infertility is absolutely a chronic disease.

ASRM recognizes that as such, and I just cannot wait to have a conversation about, you know, love and science, Oasis, and how Dr. Ruth Odoi's approach can help us all.

Welcome, Dr. Ruth.

Thank you so much for having me.

It's such an honor.

I really appreciate this time together, and I'm looking forward to a wonderful conversation, and hello to your community.

I'm so excited to be here.

Thank you so much.

So I think it's fascinating what you're doing, you know, and as I was, you know, learning more about you and your practice, it really came up that you take a holistic approach to medicine and your patients.

And I will say, I think that's what's largely missing from fertility care across the U.S.

There are many, many very good doctors who also work in complicated systems, right?

And I think things are so fast paced, and communication sometimes gets fractured.

And, you know, to just think about root causes and holistic care, I would love to know a little bit more about your practice, which blends, you know, more traditional internal medicine and also functional medicine.

Yeah, so, you know, as a busy physician myself, I realized that, you know, the current, you know, traditional setting really doesn't give us space or room to really discuss everything that's going on.

And so it's always, I felt sometimes that we feel rushed in doctors' offices where we want to talk about everything.

We want to find out what's going on.

We don't just want a prescription.

We just want to know what's causing it so I can work on it.

And so that led me in that path, you know, I started experiencing some burnout and fatigue myself and my blood work and everything was completely normal.

And so I had to, you know, go through that personal journey myself and rediscover some holistic, you know, approaches, some root cause approaches to my own care.

And that eventually led me to starting this practice because I realized a lot of women, you know, of my, you know, busy professional life, it's just so needed.

And so that's, you know, it's part of my story and part of the stories of my friends and my colleagues, you know, and I said, I want a space where women can come and feel heard and feel seen.

And so when you come to my office, it's not, you know, your typical doctor's office.

I have a full wall of wallpaper.

Everything is just comfortable, you know, and I just want that sort of vibe.

And so that's what I created with Oasis.

It's amazing.

How long have you been in your current practice?

Since earlier this year is when I officially opened the doors and I'm still working full time and making that transition.

It's a constant, you know, tug and pull and trying to transition fully.

Yeah, yeah, I totally understand that.

You know, it's when you know what you're called to do and you know, you know, how you're able to help people sometimes better outside of systems.

I think you realize you're true calling, right?

So it's a transition and I'm so excited that you exist for your patients.

I remember that you had mentioned that you do see people with infertility in your practice.

Can you tell me a little bit more about, you know, when you see somebody who has infertility and let's just say all the tests are normal.

Let's just start there.

'Cause I think that is like, gosh, just in every single person's head.

My tests are normal, but I don't feel right.

It's not working.

You know, what's wrong with me is sort of the question, right? And how do I fix it?

How do I, how can I just move on from this?

Like, how do you take your ninja skills of, you know, your listening abilities, your clinical acumen, and how do you approach, you know, a patient of yours with infertility?

Yeah, so thank you for that question.

So with patients that, or the women that come to me with infertility issue, I look at it from a very holistic view.

Number one is stress.

So, you know, we know how stress impacts our HPA axis and how the production of cortisol influences our sex hormones.

And, you know, we don't typically measure levels of cortisol or we don't even look at it in conventional medicine unless it's high or too low.

And that's when it's in a disease state and we have like a diagnosis and we have a treatment.

But what I find is a lot of women who are, you know, with high stress jobs and they are juggling a lot of things, there is that, you know, imbalance of cortisol level.

And then there is also nutritional deficiencies that are there that we don't typically test in conventional medicine.

And so when someone comes in, I do a very detailed nutrient panel and I look at every nutrient level because, you know, we try to eat healthy, but I also know that with our current agricultural practices that, you know, we are not getting all the nutrients that we need from our food, regardless of how healthy we try to eat.

And so I did, you know, I look at that and determine if you need some supplements to get those nutrient levels up because once there are some nutrient deficiency, whether it's micro, mostly it's micronutrients and, you know, trace elements and these things that we don't really pay attention to, I try to optimize all those things to get a woman's body completely, you know, optimized for birth, for getting pregnant, because we don't look at these things, you know, we just look at the big picture, but I go deep and I have like a whole cortisol reset program where I have partnered with a holistic nutritionist.

And so we really sit with you, we look at the foods that you are eating to make sure that it is supporting your cortisol levels and making sure that, you know, all those things are adjusted.

So we do have very detailed work with women to the point that we even provide like shopping list for you.

That is really personalized to you and your lifestyle to make sure that you are not deficient in any nutrients and we are testing.

So we have numbers to actually say that, well, as much as you are eating healthy, you are deficient here and there.

And one thing I like to also tell people is that most of our foods are fortified, but it's not fortified with the right nutrients, for instance, and so it's not very bioavailable.

So you are eating these things, thinking that I'm getting what I need, but it's not bioavailable.

So your body is not using it as it's needed.

So something as simple as like vitamin D, I like to look at a level above 60, but in traditional medicine, we are looking at 20 to 30, but we know it needs to be optimized in, you know, immune regulation and it has more, a bigger role than just like bone and calcium metabolism.

So I'm a Biochem major, so I look at, I just go very detailed and I'm very personal in terms of like every woman.

It's not, you are not just like another patient, you are your own person.

That's fascinating.

Are there any patterns that you see in people with infertility and different specific micronutrient deficiencies, or do you feel like it's all over the map?

So I have a woman who did a nutrient panel and believe it or not, they were deficient in vitamin A.

Wild.

And so we optimized the vitamin A and she was, her cortisol levels were also in balance.

So we got her on the program and she's about five weeks pregnant without any other intervention.

Really? That's fascinating.

It's just wild.

I don't know if it's like timing, you know, it's just she had her IUD out and was trying to conceive since 2022.

Wow.

And just wasn't happening and she just didn't pursue other like advanced, you know, going through someone like yourself.

They just were like, well, if it comes, it comes and they came in, we did the nutrient panel.

Her cortisol was off.

There was some nutrient deficiencies.

Like I remember vitamin A, which I was like, how is that even possible?

But that's, we wouldn't have known unless we tested.

Yeah, that's fascinating. - So, and then she was deficient in some other B vitamins, which is fascinating because we are never thought that these things could be deficient 'cause it's in everything, but it's not bioavailable.

And so it's, unless you test, you won't really know.

Yeah, that's so interesting.

And how do you get more bioavailable?

I know this is like, I probably learned this in medical school, maybe, maybe.

Again, we don't learn that much in medical about these things.

And I'm sure my listeners have questions too.

How do you make the food more bioavailable?

So for some it's, you may need supplementation of the bioavailable form. - Got it.

And it's also understanding that, you know, when you compare the things like the trace elements that we had in the soil, like back in 1972, the amount of iron that you would get from a cup of spinach has significantly decreased.

And so when you, yeah, so you'd have to eat 10 cups of spinach to get really the amount of iron that you would get back in 1972.

These are like all published data.

And so, you know, we look at, you know, it's really linked to how our current agricultural practices are going.

And so it's also about reading the labels, especially on the foods that have been fortified to know, okay, is this the bioavailable form?

Or should I eat the actual food that has this particular nutrient that I'm looking for versus like, you know, in what's the word I'm looking for processed, you know?

So it's about processed foods and like trying as much as possible to avoid the processed foods 'cause they are not going to be as bioavailable as eating the whole foods.

Like, you know, if you want a potato, eat a potato, you know, rather than a potato processed in some form.

Right, right, that makes total sense.

So I did not realize before this talk that the micro nutrients were related to cortisol levels.

And that makes total sense.

I mean, this is one of the tenets of my practice is especially female physicians with our stressful jobs, are running around trying to take care of all the patients, trying to take overnight call, do surgeries, like whatever it is, balance all the other demands, you know, keep it all together.

And then, you know, the infertility journey, it really becomes at least a part-time job, if not a full-time job, you know, at the fertility clinic every other day for ultrasounds and blood work.

And, you know, you don't know when your egg retrieval is gonna be, so then you got a block that week.

I mean, it just the level of hypervigilance that needs to happen, you know, arguing with insurance companies and medication companies and third-party, I mean, it's so, so, so complex.

And so, you know, any way that we can lower the cortisol levels for our patients, and, you know, you can do as much stress reduction as you want, but if the micronutrients and the diet is off, people always say, what should I eat, what should I eat?

But I think, you know, and I say, sure, like eat from the outside of the grocery store and not the middle, you know, eat as many foods and veggies as possible.

Hokeu 10 is a well-published supplement that helps with egg energy, 'cause the eggs need, you know, mitochondria need lots of energy to cause the cell divisions to happen correctly and those sorts of things, but to have the data of those micronutrients and trace elements, I think that's very powerful.

And we as physicians, we love data, don't we?

Yes, and that's why I love what, you know, holistic nutrition and because you can sometimes measure these things, and a whole lot of us are deficient in magnesium, like, and it's involved in about 300 different chemical reactions in our body, and I would like to believe fertility is one of them, but, you know, when you go and you are getting a magnesium supplement, the messaging is, you know, you need a particular magnesium that's actually bound to an amino acid for it to be, for it to increase your level of magnesium in the serum.

You don't want something bound to, like, a magnesium carbonate or magnesium, the most common one, magnesium citrate.

It only works in the gut, it does not go outside the gut.

So you will get a good, you know, bowel regimen from it, but it's not increasing your magnesium and a whole lot of people are deficient in magnesium.

We are mostly also deficient in vitamin D.

A lot of us are, especially with our busy lives.

You get in a car, well, you go from your bedroom, you get in a car, you drive to your office, you get in a car, you drive home.

I mean, you work out, but how much sunlight are you getting in a day to actually boost your vitamin D level to, you know, so it's a whole lot of factors and we have to measure and get numbers that are specific to you so that you know what you are doing.

Yeah, that makes total sense.

So, so far, just sort of thinking, zooming out to the forest, I heard you say that stress, when you see somebody with infertility, you think about stress and cortisol, and you also think about micronutrients, trace elements, and diet.

What else do you think about in this context, if anything else?

Hormonal imbalances could be, and I think that the hormonal imbalances comes back to your HPA axis, and the cortisol and the stress.

So I think if there is anything that needs to be really honed upon, honed in on, it is stress management, and I teach all my patients box breathing, and it's something you can do that is very, you can do that anywhere, and I tell them three minutes, three times a day, box breathing, that will help regulate your stress, like significantly.

Yeah, and can you describe that for people who may not know exactly what that is?

Okay, so box breathing is you inhale for four counts, and then you hold that inhalation for four counts, and then you exhale for four counts, and then you hold it for four counts, so you are making a box of your breath.

Does that make sense?

So you inhale, and that's going up, and then across, hold, yep, and down.

And you said three minutes, three times a day.

Yes.

Okay, can you be driving?

I'm thinking about my multitaskers out there.

Can you be driving while you're doing it, or is it best if that's all you're focusing on?

That's a good question.

I just tell people, do it the first thing in the morning, and then the last thing before sleeping, and then find some time in the middle of your day to do it.

Yeah, and you know, it's interesting.

I know there's data on that particular strategy, which I love data.

I think that I always tell my clients and my patients, just try it, and if it works for you, fantastic.

If it doesn't work for you, then try something else.

But a lot of this is figuring out what works for you specifically, and the more tools we have, the better, right?

Absolutely, absolutely.

And it's interesting, I think about your comment about the hormones.

We know that if somebody's trying to restore their regular cycle, say they have PCOS, or some other reason why they're not ovulating, that yes, the hormone balance is really important.

I think a lot of my patients and clients say, "Well, I'm doing IVF, my hormone levels are super physiological, so what does stress have to do with that?" But I think that if you think about cortisol levels counteracting so many other things in the body, right?

In terms of like, you know, same thing as carrying extra weight.

Like we know the medications will work better in a more optimal state, and so why not optimize everything we can?

And it does become a catch-22 because the infertility journey is inherently stressful.

And so it's like, well, how am I supposed to reduce my stress is this is stressful.

And I mean, that's what I love helping people with is, okay, a lot of the stress comes from our thoughts and our feelings.

And if you have a thought that you repeat over and over and over again, like it's not gonna work this next time, or this is my last embryo, if this doesn't take, then I'm not gonna be a mom.

Like these are the thoughts that come up over and over again.

And I learned this in coaching school, a thought that we repeat over and over again becomes a belief and oftentimes a limiting belief.

And so, I think yes, there is stress.

It's complicated to figure out how to get to all the appointments and all the things, but I think we need to really take a close look at the thoughts that we have inside of our heads and if they're serving us or not, because a lot of the stress comes from the thoughts that we're generating about our circumstance.

And that is actually in our control.

Absolutely, absolutely.

And I always, one technique that has been helpful is always taught, pattern interrupting.

Like once you get sucked into the cycle, 'cause a lot of the things that we think about actually never happen if you think about it.

True, so true. - We catastrophize and none of it happens, it just doesn't.

And so, just that pattern interruption of thinking, well, okay, even just pinching yourself or just changing your body physiology in that moment will help to reset and then you can pick another thought.

And it's very challenging because I think, and I could be wrong, but at least 80% of our thoughts are repetitive and negative.

And so, overcoming that is very, and so you have to be intentional.

I think it's about intentionality.

Like if you think that you will automatically stop thinking that way, it may not work.

You just have to be intentional and every day, every one more time, try it again, one more time.

I was just listening to Ed Millett.

And I think he recently came out with this new book and he talks about his dad's philosophy of one more time, just like trying something one more time, like this one more time and just one more day and just encouraging yourself in that way that I'm only here today and this one more time.

One more time, let me breathe, one more time, let me try again.

Yeah, or even like a slightly different thought.

Let me, if I'm ruminating and I keep having the same thought over and over again, I think there's no hope of stopping, can I just try one more time to find that secret trap door out of that rumination loop one more time?

Can I try something even slightly different?

Or like, what would Dr. O do I say here?

What would Coach Erica say, Dr. Bovlick?

Those sorts of things, sometimes we can't get out of our own thoughts, but if we think, what would somebody else think about our situation?

Somebody in my support group the other day said, I'm so much more compassionate with my friend who's going through inversality than I am with myself.

Right, so sometimes we actually have to get out of our own minds to have that perspective to then start to shift.

Absolutely, like, what would I tell my friend if they were going through this same thought process?

What would I say to them and just say that to yourself?

Exactly, it's hard.

It's like we have this magnetic field force of not to do this, right?

But I think it's a learned skill and I think it's one that makes all the difference.

Yeah.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Well, I also wanted to ask you, what are your thoughts about the connection between gut health, adrenal fatigue, thyroid issues and burnout?

You know, I remember you sort of connected all those in one sentence when we spoke before.

And I feel like I know very minimal information about gut health, truly.

I know I've listened to some of your content, like you are very much an expert on gut health.

So how do these things tie together and how might they be relevant for somebody with infertility?

Yeah, so I think having a healthy gut in general is a good baseline for an overall health and vitality.

Why?

Because our gut has a difficult job of trying to keep out bad guys.

So we have the junctions, you know, just I'm not trying to bring you back to physiology or pathology, but- - We love physiology on this podcast, so just carry on.

So remember those cell junctions that, you know, sit between the epithelium, like the lining of our gut.

They have a difficult job of trying to keep things out, but also trying to absorb the nutrients that we need.

And a lot of times things like stress will release some interleukins that increases the permeability of the gut lining.

And once that's happening, then you are having trouble absorbing food.

And then another thing that's happening is the disruption of our gut flora, whether it's through antibiotics or even stress.

Or changes in the environment in the gut can change the gut flora, and that can lead to dysbiosis.

And, you know, all that ties back into stress and our mental health, because 80% of the serotonin that we use is made in our gut through the production of tryptophan.

And that's the making of serotonin, which is a common neurotransmitter.

And so when the gut flora is unstable, we run into dysbiosis and serotonin deficiency, if you will.

So there is that.

And then there is also the fact that there is a lot of toxins that our liver is constantly trying to break down in terms of the phase one and phase two.

And so when you look at a hormone such as estrogen, it goes through the liver in terms of conjugation and just trying to detox out of your body.

And so when your liver is sort of overloaded with toxins, I know this is like functional medicine talk.

And once that's happening, then you will have trouble with estrogen because now it's not being properly metabolized through your body.

Oh, interesting.

And so there is, yeah, so there's, and so, you know, when I think of that, I'm thinking of women who are in perimenopause who come to me and they need like hormone replacement therapy.

And I share with them that, listen, if we don't do a detox or a gut detox, I can give you all the estrogen or I can give you all the support, but it's not going to go anywhere because there is like phase one needs to happen and phase two needs to happen and the metabolites need to leave your body.

But when there is an overload and it's not happening, I'm just adding to the toxin load.

And this is not something. - That's really interesting.

Yeah, this is not something I learned in medical school.

So, you know, when you think of the liver, you're only thinking of, do you have elevated LFTs or not?

You know, that's how I have learned about the liver in medical school, but there is so much more to it.

So when I'm thinking gut health, I'm thinking of the liver and I'm thinking of the small intestines, especially endelage intestines and all the different things that kind of affect it.

I hope I answered the question.

Yeah, no, and you know, I was thinking about it.

So, you know, I think that there's been some links between the gut microbiome and the uterine microbiome, which is interesting, you know, just to think about those connections there.

So if we improve our gut health, that it is highly likely that we'll be improving our uterine health, you know.

Absolutely.

I need to read more about that, but the preliminary data that I've read would suggest that exactly.

You said that's really interesting.

And then also your comment about estrogen absorption is really relevant because so many people, you know, say you have frozen embryos and then you need to do a frozen embryo transfer.

One of our main stays of treatment protocols is to give estradiol, right?

To give 17- - Okay, yeah.

Estradiol for the lining to thicken.

And we have a pretty large subset of patients who do not mount a uterine lining to the estrogen.

And it's like, what is going on there?

I mean, this is the bane of our existence as fertility specialists.

You have these beautiful embryos, but you don't have the soil, so to speak, to put them in because the lining doesn't get thick.

And, you know, maybe it's a metabolism.

Oh, they just don't metabolize estrogen the same way or their receptors or something.

But I think, what if we could take a more holistic approach and think about a gut detox and maybe that will actually help your liver to not be so hard on this estrogen that you're trying to metabolize and maybe you're gonna have more bioavailability if we can think about the whole picture.

This is fascinating to me.

So, and, you know, hey, if something is not working over and over and over again, why not try something new?

I mean, the risk benefit of a gut detox sounds pretty, you know, in favor of benefit from my perspective.

Exactly, and I think that when people hear the word gut detox, they just associate it with like some influencer on Instagram or TikTok.

But like there are protocols that we follow as like holistic practitioners or holistic physicians that we do it, you know, it needs to be done under the guidance of an expert.

You know, I don't think you should go and get a gallon of whatever online and just drink it because it says gut detox.

I don't, you know, I don't think that's the right way to do it.

I think that, yeah, it can be done in a very controlled and, you know, and evidence-based manner.

And so, you know, I, most women who join my, who come to me, I do put them on a probiotic because by the time you are 20, I don't know how many times you've taken antibiotics, you know, for-- - Yes, yes.

And our patients take them-- - Very infectious.

And our patients take them with high frequency 'cause I'm like, oh, you have chronic endometritis, you need to clear that.

So here's more doxy, here's Augmentin, here's Ciproflagell, and I'm thinking, you know, my clients tell me they're on Ciproflagell and I'm like, I hope you don't get C. diff, like, you know, just like, oh my goodness.

Yeah, yeah. - But I think our people more than others actually are on a lot of antibiotics and we try to be good stewards as fertility specialists but sometimes you treat one problem and you create another, right?

Absolutely, and things, something as simple as a PPI can also disrupt your gut flora because once you change the acidity in the stomach, now the resident flora in the stomach are not so welcome, so it's going to change over that flora in that stomach.

It's interesting, I'm just thinking about my own practice here, it's like fascinating.

You know, I've sort of been toying with when I give somebody antibiotics for chronic endometritis, what if I just automatically put them on a vaginal probiotic?

Like, just to say, like, you need good bacteria, you need El Crispada, we know this from the data, like, that's one of the ones you need the most and so, you know, I feel like I do treat people with antibiotics and then we do a test of cure, great.

They're, you know, infection, inflammation's cured, go on, have your transfer, but I think, I think the more responsible thing to do with this information, not that it was irresponsible before with knowledge comes power, is that we could potentially just be very proactive about the flora and the microbiome in that way.

So thank you for that, I think I'm going to change my practice based on that.

Oh, well, thank you, absolutely.

I think just helping them with the probiotic and changing that flora could make a difference.

It could make it, 'cause they are there for a reason, so.

That's right, they are there for a reason, that's right.

I have another question that is tangentially related and I know you do a lot of work with chronic fatigue, you know, people with chronic fatigue.

Correct, yes.

And this is a question, you know, it's burning, so please answer it how you want to, but my question is, why are we all so tired?

Why are we all so tired?

Well, that's...

I mean, you know, my patients and my clients have infertility and all these things, but I feel like that is the most common and nonspecific sort of comment and I experience it at times myself and it's like, what can we do to help the chronic fatigue as people, we know eggs need energy, we know embryos need energy, so sperm need energy.

So, you know, why are we so tired and what can we do about it to make ourselves start to go?

But I know it's a big question, but I know this is your jam.

Yeah, so the first thing I say is like, as Americans, we are very well, we are well fed, but undernourished.

So that takes me back to the soil that we are eating from, you know, from our plants.

Are we getting enough trace elements from the foods that we are eating?

Are we getting enough nutrients from these foods?

Because all at the end of the day, when your body is not getting the micronutrients or the trace elements or the nutrients that it needs, it's going to take it from somewhere.

And so you get depleted.

And I think that's the first reason we are also tired is nutrient deficiency.

And when we think of nutrient deficiencies, we don't count ourselves as like part of it because we are in a very developed nation in the world, but our foods that we eat are really not, you know, and I think there is coming a time where they are going to start changing the agricultural practices and they are going to start changing the types of things that they put in our foods in terms, when I say they, I'm not trying to start a conspiracy or anything, but the foods that we eat aren't healthy.

That's, they are not nourishing us.

And there needs to be a shift, you know, in terms of when you look at a typical food label and you read what's in the food label, there are a lot of inflammatory substances that we are eating and it's labeled as healthy, but is it healthy, you know?

And so, you know, I'm going about, but the first thing is really to look, take a deep look into what we are putting in our bodies.

I think that's why we are tired.

Another reason is our circadian rhythms are all, have all been disrupted because of our lifestyle.

So, you know, what do we do before we go to bed?

We stare at our phones.

The blue light is not helping, you know, the brain to release the melatonin that you need that's supposed to put you to sleep.

It is not.

And so you are getting, you know, this, you are not, you know, you are getting the blue light, you are not sleeping well.

And so your circadian rhythm is off and that affects a lot of systems in our body, including the HPA axis because cortisol is released in a very diurnal fashion and it's really dependent on the circadian rhythms that we have.

And so when that's disrupted, it's going to disrupt things.

So those are the two things that I really try to impress on the women that listen, what you eat is 80% of the battle, really.

Interesting. - It's...

And I think, you know, my clients, I'll speak about my clients because that's a very particular niche.

I think that there's this hyper focus of like, am I doing all the things right?

Right? Because it's like high achieving women, mostly physicians, like they're spending lots of time and energy and effort on their diets because, you know, they're like, oh, I need to go anti-inflammatory.

I need to cut out gluten.

I need to cut out dairy.

And I'm not even, you know, I don't even have celiac, but this is what I've read online.

And I think that that focus is very well-meaning.

And of course we want to do all the things to optimize outcomes, but then I think it takes on this like extra level of stress and hyperfigilance.

And I wonder if it's not counterproductive in some form.

And right, so I think how wonderful would it be to have somebody like you who could just like, not just, who could run the tests and say, this is your profile.

This is my prescription for you.

Here is your shopping list.

Like I say, in the fertility world, I'm taking the burden from you.

So you do not have to worry.

Like, you know, let me take this, you know, nutritional burden from you.

So you do not need to stress and we can support you through this journey.

Absolutely.

And that's what I do with the cortisol reset program because I realize people are busy.

No one has the time to be reading food labels.

It's just tough, you know?

So what do you like to eat?

These are your nutrient deficiencies.

We've tested it based on your own blood sample.

And this is where we are.

And what do you like to eat?

How can we embellish what you already like to eat so that you can get all the things that you need to get you feeling great?

Because at the end of the day, if you are not feeling great or you feel tired, it's really going to affect everything that you do, including your resilience through the process.

And so I try to take off that heavy load and, you know, I work, we work with a holistic nutritionist.

So we are looking at things at a very holistic and science-based level, really.

Sounds a lot like love and science.

Yes.

We have a lot of parallels.

Yeah, and I want to make a comment about the thing with dairy that, you know, I know dairy can be inflammatory for some people, but I want to encourage the women, you know, that if you are going to not eat dairy, realize that it may cause some vitamin D and calcium issue.

And so you have to make a plan about how you are going to replace that so that you are not in an attempt to prevent one thing, create another problem.

That's a lot of point.

Yeah, and we know like osteoporosis is such an issue and we don't just want to focus on this chapter of life.

We want to focus on the whole picture.

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.

This is so fascinating.

I also wanted to ask you, you know, you mentioned that your practice is faith-based and I wanted to ask, what do you see?

Like, how does that enhance your practice to be open to that wisdom, those sort of, those frameworks?

Like, tell me about the role of faith in your medical practice.

Yeah, okay, so they've done some studies where with, and this was done in cancer patients.

So I know it may not, you know, be comparable to your audience, but we do know that people who cultivate hope or who have hope tend to do better than the people who don't have hope.

And so what we see is people who practice any religion or believe in a higher, you know, a power higher than them tend to have increased hope.

And that hope can make all the difference.

We've seen it make a difference in cancer patients where when they had hope, they were more likely to respond to chemotherapy versus those who did not have any hope.

And so, and then we also see that social connectivity makes a big difference in our overall health.

So what do people who go to the mosque or go to church or go to a temple have in common?

There's that social network and that connectivity and that togetherness that is so powerful that, you know, I know when I go to church on a Sunday, I go feeling one way and I come out feeling, you know, more hopeful and more positive, you know.

And so it's so strong that there's that element there that so spirituality and believing there's a higher power can make all the difference in your health and wellbeing.

And there are a lot of studies.

I think that's true.

And I mean, I will tell you, there are many times when I go into a transfer room for an embryo transfer and I can just tell somebody is very shut down, very, you know, just without hope, hopeless really.

And, you know, a lot of times I'll take a moment and I'll say like, let's just take a moment and breathe or pray or whatever it is.

Like, I want to get you into a better head space for this transfer because I've been doing this over a decade.

I will tell you the people who have the authentic hope is what I call it, that the transfer is gonna work.

They have higher success rates.

And I wish that was the whole story.

'Cause if I could just say, oh, you know, just cultivate hope and you're gonna, like your transfer is gonna work.

I mean, it takes more than hope.

However, you know, it's, what do we say?

It's like, it's one of those things where if you don't have it, it's not a good thing, right?

And so I, what we're looking for in my field is uterine receptivity at the cellular level, we need there to be alignment so that an embryo is placed in the right spot and that little embryo can find a home.

And so, you know, I always say to my clients, and I say most of my clients do believe in a higher power 'cause they seek me out.

And that is me, you know, I'm very much about getting grounded about, you know, trusting, trusting a higher plan, you know, about connecting with other people and that flow that can happen between us when we allow for something greater than ourselves.

I think it's really powerful.

And I, you know, I don't believe, you know, I don't believe this like these like pithy statements, like everything happens for a reason.

And that, you know, like, I think sometimes they, this can be used against people.

And there's this whole thing about spiritual bypassing that I think is actually very dangerous because it's like, no, we need to have it in the messy middle, right?

We need to have it alongside us, keeping us going, keeping us committed, keeping us authentic hope by definition means that we take science into the equation and find scientific reasons to stay hopeful.

So I'm a very much a believer in hope, but like the right kind of hope, right?

And I think you're right.

I think that when we can take a, you know, more positive, and I think just open, like a more open, can do possibility thinking stands on our health, both in terms of chronic disease and including infertility, I do see better outcomes.

And I also think people stick with treatments longer and give them a greater chance to work because mentally it's, I don't wanna say it's easier 'cause it's not easy, it's more doable to stay in the game.

Absolutely.

And one thing too we know is that when you go in this, like to social gatherings for religious purposes, whether it's a temple or church or whatever, and you sing, it's a vagal nerve reset, singing.

And so just singing can reduce, it can shift you from the sympathetic to the parasympathetic, just singing.

Oh, that's fascinating.

And what do we do in these gatherings?

We do a lot of singing, you know, whether, you know, so there's so much connections there and I could go on and- - Yeah, that's really interesting.

I do love to sing and I do love to sing at church.

I also love to sing on my treadmill.

Yeah, and like you can even think about like a football stadium full of like men just singing together in that sort of bond it creates.

It's like such a wild release of oxytocin, which is so good for your body.

Just like having that togetherness and singing and leaving that one thing, whether it's football or God, you know, it just, it makes all the difference.

Yeah, I think you're so right.

And one thing we didn't exactly talk about directly, but I've heard you talk about before is the neurotransmitters and by this increasing our vagal tone and improving the neurotransmitters, which are good for our brains and tamping down the ones that are not so good for our brains and the rest of our body, right?

That it just, it helps to feel better.

And I think that, you know, if we're in a storm of cortisol, epinephrine, norepinephrine, all those things like that, those sympathetic hormones, we're gonna feel hypervigilant.

We're gonna feel on edge.

You know, we know it's not good for our health.

We don't lose weight at the same rate.

Like there's all these things, right?

But then it's not just about reducing those.

It's about encouraging the other ones, right?

With mindfulness and singing and connectivity and hope that oxytocin, dopamine, you know, there's serotonin, there's so many good ones.

It's like, you know, sure we have all these mood stabilizing medicines, but what if we actually looked at things that we can do outside of these medications that also, you know, in gratitude, gratitude's one.

I talk a lot about gratitude.

Absolutely.

We know that it increases our neurochemical soup of the hormones that help us out in a beneficial way.

So let's seek out those opportunities in this holistic approach so we can not just feel better, but have the best possible outcomes, you know?

Absolutely, absolutely.

And one simple, or maybe not simple, but if you're a hugger, hugging someone that you love for 20 seconds increases oxytocin and it decreases your heart rate.

And it just does a lot of goodness to your body that can be helpful during the infertility journey, so.

Yeah, and that's free, you know?

A hug is free. - It's free, yeah.

I think, I hope that every single one of us has at least one person in our life who we can hug for 20 seconds, right?

Yes. - Yeah.

I wonder if it applies to pets too.

I have, especially at Love and Science, we have a lot of people who are very, very amazing dog moms and sometimes we share pictures of the dogs.

I actually, you know, sometimes seeing children can be quite triggering for my clients and my patients and so I say, when you see a pregnant woman or you see a child, go find a dog, you know, go find a dog and just focus on the dog.

And hug the dog.

Dogs are harmless, yes.

So hug the dog, right?

Hug the dog, let it, let it love on you.

Yeah. - Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

Well, this has been so amazing.

I wanted to sort of ask if there's anything else you wanted our listeners to know.

Obviously, you know, tell us where to find you and all those things, but is there anything else that you feel needs to be said with our conversation today?

Yes, so one thing we didn't touch on is the use of omega-3 supplementation in terms of helping with inflammation because, and you know, the cell wall, the cell wall is made of omega-3, omega-6, omega-3 being anti-inflammatory, omega-6 being pro-inflammatory, and we have a lot of omega-6 in terms of our diet and the oils, and so if there is one thing I would say that I believe we should all take is a good omega-3 supplement, a vitamin D supplement, and a good magnesium supplement, I think those, and a probiotic, I think those four, can make a difference.

So vitamin D, omega-3, probiotic, and magnesium?

Correct. - And the right kind of magnesium, if I heard you correctly.

Correct, yes, yes, yes, yes.

I think I have something on my website about supplements and I go into details about the types of magnesium and what to look for on a supplement label to make sure it's been third-party tested, so it's not filled with fillers and all other stuff that you don't need.

Well, it's interesting, I have a friend who's very into, she's a Reiki master and she's very, she's not a physician, she is absolutely brilliant, she's a therapist, and I mean, she just does all this holistic healing, right?

And I stayed, I spent the night at her house a couple of weeks ago because we were going to our college reunion together, and she was like, "Oh, would you like some magnesium?

"It'll, you know, it'll help you feel relaxed, "it'll help you sleep better." And it was something I just had never considered, right?

And I was like, "Oh, sure, I'll take some magnesium." And so, truly, like, she gave me some magnesium and I took it and I was like, it was almost like the resting tone of my body.

Yes. - Like, it was almost like I had this wave over my body of just this relaxation, it's hard to describe, and I was like, "She's right, "I do feel more calm." And it just seems so simple.

And so, you know, I've never had my magnesium tested, maybe Dr. Odo, you should be my doctor, maybe we'll talk later, you know, so we can really get some numbers on this.

But I was like, "Well, that's really interesting." You have like, you know, and I know there's placebo effect and everything, but I try to be open to like, well, what if it's real, right?

Like, I felt so much better even after one dose of magnesium before bed, and I was like, well, maybe there's something to this, and people with headaches, and, you know, I could go on and on, like, that's safe in pregnancy, whereas other things aren't.

And I think you have a lot to offer, and I think that we need more of what you bring to the table in terms of holistic healing for all of us, and also specifically people with infertility, for sure.

Yeah, thank you, thank you.

I love what I do. - So where can we find you?

Yeah, I know, I can tell you love what you do, I can tell.

Where can we find you?

I am on, I'm on Facebook, so Oasis, O-A-S-I-S, Women's Functional Medicine, I'm on Facebook.

I'm also on Instagram, and my website is www.oasisfunctionalmedicine.com.

So yeah, I'm on all those places, and yeah.

Where do you have licenses?

I have license in New York and Ohio.

I'm in New York, woo woo, it's happening.

(both laughing)

Oh my goodness, Dr. Ode, thank you so much for joining us today.

This was such a pleasure, and I cannot wait for our listeners to benefit from this conversation.

Absolutely, thank you so much for having me, and I enjoyed my time here.

Likewise, until the next time, my friend, bye.

Bye.