A Physician Coach's Fertility Journey: Embodying Self Trust with Dr. Trina Dorrah

Have you ever felt like you suffered in silence? Like no one else understood your situation or your struggles?

Dr. Trina Dorrah is a certified physician coach who shares her experience of the fertility journey before she discovered coaching. She shares:

• how coaching tools could have helped her navigate the process with much less shame, blame, self-judgment, and overwhelm

• mindset shifts which could be applied to women physicians undergoing this process

• her eating disorder journey including taking time for recovery, notably after her fertility journey

• the parallels between intuitive eating and trusting one's body along the way

Thank you, Dr. Dorrah, for generously sharing your story with us. 

We are not alone, and we are stronger together. 

Guest Details: 

Dr. Trina Dorrah is an internal medicine physician and life coach for women physicians. She’s been a hospitalist for 18 years and understands the exhaustion, overwhelm, and self-doubt that can come with a career in medicine.

Trina started her coaching journey in 2020 after training at The Life Coach School and later earning her ICF certification through Symbiosis. She’s also a Certified Relationship-Centered Communication Coach and a Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor. Her varied interests reflect her belief that true well-being comes from caring for both mind and body—with compassion, curiosity, and balance.

Known as The Affordable Life Coach, Trina believes good coaching doesn’t have to cost a fortune. Through her work, she helps women physicians beat burnout, improve communication, and reconnect with the joy that brought them to medicine in the first place.

Learn more at theaffordablelifecoach.com.

As always, please keep in mind that this is my perspective and nothing in this podcast is medical advice.

If you found this conversation valuable, book a consult call with me using this link:

https://calendly.com/loveandsciencefertility/discovery-call

Also, be sure to check out our website: loveandsciencefertility.com

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Please don’t let infertility have the final word. We are here to take the burden from you so that you can achieve your goal of building your family with confidence and compassion. I’m rooting for you always.

In Gratitude,

Dr. Erica Bove

Transcript:

Hello, my loves and welcome back to the Love and Science podcast.

I have an amazing guest today.

Her name is Dr. Trina Dorrah.

She's somebody I've been following for a very long time because she is a physician coach who is absolutely amazing.

And she is here today to share her story about coaching and possibly her own fertility story because there's so much wisdom when we come together and share why we do what we do and what we've learned.

And I really can't wait for this conversation today.

So by way of introduction, she's an internal medicine physician and a life coach for women physicians.

She's been a hospice for 18 years.

And, you know, as we talk about a lot at Love and Science, she truly understands the exhaustion, overwhelm and self-doubt that can come with a career in medicine.

She started her coaching journey in 2020 after training at the Life Coach School, is where I also trained. And she also later earned her ICF certification through symbiosis. So that's sort of like the international coaching certification. She is a certified relationship centered communication coach and a certified intuitive eating counselor. So maybe we'll get into some of that as well. And her varied interests reflect her belief that true well being comes from caring for both mind and body with compassion, curiosity and balance. So, you know, one other one other aspect before we get into the conversation, I really appreciate it.

Trina is that she is really known as the Affordable Life Coach, and she's figured out ways to really figure out affordable coaching, which is wonderful.

And really, her mission is to help women with the burnout, improve communication, and reconnection with the joy that brought them into medicine in the first place.

So without much more ado, let's welcome Dr. Trina Dorrah.

Thanks so much for being here.

- Thank you for having me.

- Yeah, absolutely.

So, you know, I'd love to know a little bit about how you wandered into the coaching realm, because it, you know, sounds like that's been a very meaningful source of your life over the last few years. Like what, what got you curious in the first place?

You know, initially, I fired a fitness coach. And so that was around 2019, I believe, that I hired a fitness coach. And he had a program. And even though he was a male coach, his audience was, I would say 95% women. And he did kind of a group program. I was in like a pod with some other women. And it was really a meaningful experience. And I remember being one of those people that kind of laughed at the idea of a life coach. And he didn't even specifically call himself a life coach. But that was essentially what he was doing. He started as a fitness coach, but then he was incorporating a lot of mindset.

And I remember kind of, you know, laughing about it at first.

And then I think one thing that really kind of changed my mindset.

At that time, I was experiencing some burnout in medicine.

I don't think I knew what it was at the time.

I just knew I was kind of unhappy.

And in my group of women that I was with, there was a lady who was a nurse practitioner.

And over the course of the coaching program, she decided to leave her job.

And I remember just thinking, I was like, "Wait, you can just leave your job." That's something people do just 'cause they're unhappy.

And he had kind of come to that realization through this coaching program.

And I didn't end up leaving my job.

I actually used coaching to help me kind of fall in love with my job again.

But I think that was when I first sort of realized that coaching was a thing and it could actually make your life better.

And that's whenever I started wanting to become a coach.

So first I kind of experienced coaching, and then I did a couple other coaching programs where I experienced coaching.

And then I really started seeing like, oh, okay, you can use this to make your life better.

And like I said, the first person I saw that with left her career in medicine, I knew I wanted to stay.

And so then I started meeting other physicians who were coaches, and I started learning that, Hey, you could use coaching to actually enjoy medicine again and to decrease burnout and want to stay in medicine.

And that was so helpful.

And then, you know, the very next year was when COVID started.

And so having the tools of coaching when we were going through COVID, I think was so incredibly helpful with my mental health during that time.

- Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, and that's the amount of time that I was also appreciating coaching and using coaching for my own sanity, I guess you'd say.

- Yes.

- So you mentioned that you needed some assistance to conceive, did you discover coaching like after that time or during that time?

Like was coaching at all a part of your experience when you were going through that phase of your life?

- No, it wasn't.

Let's see, that would have been 20, let's see, I got married in 2014.

And we pretty much immediately started for a child.

And I started doing infertility treatments.

I would say maybe 2015, if I'm remembering correctly.

2015, definitely by 2016.

I had started doing some infertility treatments.

And so, no, because I didn't really find coaching until 2019, 2020.

Now though that I know the skills of coaching, I could definitely see how it would have helped had I known the things that I know now.

- Yeah, I'm curious about that.

You know, if you'd be willing to share a little bit about your journey of fertility, I think that would be really, really helpful.

I think one of the hardest parts about this journey is that people feel so alone.

And they feel like there's not nobody like them who's also experiencing anything similar, balancing a busy career as a physician and trying to squeeze in appointments for fertility and the uncertainty and everything.

- Right.

- Yeah, if you'd be willing to share what you remember from that time, that would be the call.

- Yeah, no, it's so much so I am married to my second husband.

So I'm sure you have some listeners who feel that maybe their prime fertility years, might have been wasted on a failed relationship.

And so I do remember having some of those thoughts whenever I was going through the fertility journey because I was married to my first husband in my 20s and or, you know, kind of later 20s.

And then I married my second husband in my mid 30s.

And so that's why I said we kind of started trying almost immediately, but I do remember there definitely being thoughts that would come up in my head that if only I had met the one that was gonna be my husband for forever in my 20s, like that this wouldn't be happening to me.

So there was definitely a lot of that, like kind of like anger or regret that the person I wanted to have kids with, I didn't meet until later.

Certainly there's thoughts that would come up about, Well, maybe if I hadn't chosen medicine, then this wouldn't be happening because when you choose a career in medicine, you're so focused on medicine that oftentimes you're putting off having children.

And I definitely think, you know, I work with medical students and residents now.

And I definitely think that there is still some of that mindset, although I have seen some residents who have families now.

And so maybe there is more room for that.

maybe there are some residencies where that is more welcome.

But I feel like when I was going through it, just my mentality was, if you're going to choose medicine, you can't have a family.

So I just kind of put that out of my mind whenever I was going through training and then I got married and that marriage didn't work out.

And so then I kind of had that anger at finding my husband later in life, a little bit of frustration that maybe medicine did this to me.

You have all the thoughts.

I think that's where coaching could have been helpful had I knew the skills where I could have coached myself if I had really known about coaching, I could have hired a coach to even just help me work through those thoughts.

So I can pause there if you have any questions about that, otherwise I can keep going.

- Yeah, I know, thank you so much for sharing.

I think it's so common what you said is sort of, yes, this person, I was with this person for so many in my most fertile years and then, you know, no better do better, but then being this much older.

And, you know, sometimes I wonder, I'm divorced too.

And I wonder, like, you know, I feel so much wiser now.

And I also feel like I think to myself, oh, I should have made a better decision or if I'd only not made that decision.

But I also realized that, like, even if something better or different had come along at that point, I don't think it would have been in my magnetic field because I'm such a different person now too.

And so I think you're right, like that mindful self compassion, like I made the best choices that I could.

Sometimes it's really hard to get out of relationships that aren't working for various reasons or some relationships end abruptly.

And that is medicine takes so much of our time.

People always say to me, why did you stay for so long in your bad marriage?

And honestly, Trina, like I think if I wasn't in medicine, I would have had more reserved to be like, this is unacceptable, but working 80, 100 hour weeks, as we do, I was just like, there's no gas in the tank.

I can barely charge myself one at night.

Like I'm not gonna talk about ending this relationship and a divorce and all of those things.

And so I think it's very understandable and very relatable what you shared because, especially for people who either have, are on their second marriage, or maybe people haven't met another partner yet and their reproductive years are narrowing And they're like, there's just all this anger and blame and shame and all of those negative feelings that I think really do need to be worked through to be free of them.

Yeah.

- Yeah, no, definitely.

And I think that now I have a different perspective and I do believe more like this was how it was supposed to happen.

And I think a lot of that mindset, in coaching we talk a lot about like choosing mindsets that are helpful for you.

And I definitely think that over time, like I've kind of gotten to that point where I'm like, it's not helpful to say, oh, I wish this hadn't happened because it did and I can't change it.

- Right, right.

- So I think it has become much more remembering it wasn't, the first marriage wasn't all bad.

There were a lot of good things that came from it.

It got me to the place where I am now.

It was supposed to happen this way.

And I think that that helps take away a lot of the pain in the anger whenever I can think of it a little bit differently, but of course that takes some time to get there.

- Oh, 100%, 100%, that's so relatable.

So I'm also curious, so if you think back to that time when you were in the throes of the fertility treatments and working as an attending and everything, what do you remember was the hardest part?

- Right, the hardest part.

Well, the greatest charge.

- You know, I got married, like I said, we weren't using birth control or anything like that 'cause we were in our mid-30s.

And so I wasn't getting pregnant.

And so we did decide, you know, let's just go ahead and reach out to a fertility specialist.

And so I think that was one thing that we decided to do.

I know that there are some guidelines about when you try for this long, and then if it's not helping, you know, working then go meet with somebody.

But I think we were maybe a little bit more aggressive we were just kind of like, hey, let's just go ahead and meet with someone.

There's no harm in talking to someone.

And I remember the first utility specialist didn't just jump right to IVF.

The first thing that he tried was just medication.

So first we tried a medication.

And then when that didn't work, then we moved to an IUI, is what I remember.

And I assume your listeners are familiar Oh yeah, this is like all yeah, yeah. Okay, and so we did that and then I remember I did maybe three rounds of the IUI and then we moved to in vitro fertilization. That was whenever it got to be more challenging with my job. Now I'm a hospitalist so that definitely helps because My job full time is week on week off. So already there were a lot of days that I was off But the thing that really allowed me to be able to juggle the two is having understanding partners So I think it's one of those things were like a lot of times you want to keep it to yourself That you're going through IVF because you know that you know, it may not be successful You just don't want a lot of people prying but there was one partner that I had to tell and And he was one of those partners who was always, you know, willing to help out, always willing to switch.

He was an older gentleman actually in our group. And I did tell him what was going on because I do, I remember there being a time when I was supposed to have some sort of procedure done and I took off the day and then I went in and then they were like, "Oh, your uterine lining's not quite as thick as we want.

Can you come back tomorrow?" I was just like, wait, but I picked today off.

I don't have tomorrow off.

And that's where having that partner that I had told what was going on was very helpful because then I remember like I immediately messaged him and I was like, this is what's going on.

Can you work tomorrow?

And he was like, oh, absolutely.

But that was the thing that I think was so hard was even when you try to plan it, the plans sometimes fall through and then a lot of times you just can't plan it.

Like it's just based on your body and what your body's doing.

And you find out on very, very short notice.

And so that's the hard thing.

- Yeah, 'cause I think medicine can often be very inflexible and there's patients and there's, the longer we go and I feel like things are becoming more and more bureaucratic, it's like, Oh, you can't do that, you know, or you get dinged in some way.

And so I think it takes some vulnerability to be open in the first place.

You kind of have to choose who are your safe people.

But I think if possible, just saying to somebody, if not everybody, you know, I need some flexibility, I need some cross, I will pay you back.

You know, I just, I just, I have this going on in my life right now.

And I think that's sort of really the ideal situation to have that support.

But I know not everybody does have that support.

- Yeah, and I think that's true.

And it might depend on the type of specialty you're in.

Like I said, I'm a hospitalist.

There are a lot of women who are hospitalists.

But like I said, in this story, it was a man who was very understanding of what I was going through and very willing to help me.

So yes, you're right, not everyone has that.

But I do think if you can work with your partners, I think most people understand this journey, especially in medicine, because there's so many people struggling with infertility in medicine.

And I think most people understand that there does need to be a little bit of flexibility.

- Yeah, absolutely.

So thank you for sharing that.

If you had had the coaching tools that you have now, how might you have sort of approached the journey in a slightly different way?

I know you said that you kind of might've looked your past in a way that was a little bit more gentle and kind.

Is there anything that you can think of that like as you did the day to day of like the waiting for your results and the embryo development, everything, you know, just sort of thinking, you know, if you could have had that then, what you would have appreciated?

Yeah, I think that coaching and then even just kind of like mindfulness tools could have been very helpful because there's just a lot of stress and anxiety that goes into the journey.

And even whenever it doesn't work out, right, there's a lot of disappointment and heartache.

And I think having some strategies of how to work through those emotions could have been very helpful.

Because again, I think a lot of people keep their infertility journey to themselves.

And so it's not something that they're sharing with a lot of people.

Or maybe even if you have a friend who you are sharing it with, even though they may be a great friend, they may not have ever experienced anything like this.

And so you have all these emotions and it's hard to know what to do with them.

And whenever I would go see my physicians, that's not their role.

They did not have time to sit down and do a coaching session with me.

And I didn't have a therapist or anybody I was working with.

So I didn't really have anybody to talk to.

So I think coaching tools would have been so helpful at that time just to help me have something to do with the emotions and the fears and dealing with the disappointment and learning to stay, like I said, mindful and thought patterns and processes that are more helpful.

- Yeah, and thank you so much for sharing that.

I think, you know, I always say, I wish I had discovered these coaching tools so much sooner.

We get them when we get them and then we can sort of decide how to integrate them moving forward.

And also, we both have how to help other people learn these tools, 'cause I think that part of the power is empowering other people to then learn these and make them very applicable to their personal lives.

But I'm curious.

- And I remember it was-- - Yeah, I'm sorry.

- No, no, please go ahead.

- I was gonna say, I remember during that time I had another friend who was trying to get pregnant and she got pregnant before I did.

And it's hard, right?

Like it's-- - So hard.

- And when you're going through the process, you're very aware of everyone you know pregnant or even all the maybe the nurses you're working with who are getting pregnant or people talking about their kids or whatever and it's so easy to feel anger and bitterness and jealousy and all of those emotions which are normal emotions and it's okay to feel them but then you know a lot of times we would talk as you know during our coach training about like how long do you want to dwell in that emotion like it's fine to feel it but like how long do you want to dwell in it And I think that that's where maybe the coaching could have helped.

Like, yes, it's normal to feel some jealousy about somebody else who it's working out for.

But how can I move past this in a healthy way?

Or how could I deal with this emotion in a healthy way?

>> Yeah, and I think so much of coaching is dealing, figuring out what are our emotions in the first place.

Because if you're like me, I had never really considered it.

It was just like work a little harder, run a little harder, you know, just like numbing, numbing, numbing.

And then once I finally was like lifted up the hood of the car, I was like, holy goodness, there's a lot going on in there, you know?

So then like first is the awareness of what am I feeling?

And then the mechanisms to process those feelings in a way that doesn't steal more than it needs to, but kind of honors the data.

I think of the data of what those feelings are trying to tell us, right?

- Right.

It's wonderful that you're able to do that.

But you're right, those friendship dynamics are so complicated.

We do a lot of coaching on friendships and family and holidays.

I mean, as of the time in this recording, the holidays are coming up soon, and I just can feel the anxiety building.

And it's also not even just the major holidays and all the hella-bola that goes on around those at the parties and such.

It's just the softer holidays.

It's the first day of school, and everybody's on social media.

And it's the baby shower announcements.

and Halloween even, you know, I think we have to think Mother's Day, Father's Day, like all those hallmark things that are supposed to be happy, it's just kind of another dagger of like the expectations that haven't happened yet.

So figuring out how to help people along the way so that this journey doesn't steal all the joy.

I think that's something that I feel very passionate about, you know, especially women physicians who are giving their wives to medicine, right?

Yeah, so one thing we had talked about, you know, in preparation for this conversation was emotional eating.

And my listeners know that I struggle with an eating disorder back when I was a teenager and in college, competitive runner, all the things.

And I think navigating a healthier relationship with food and body in general can be really challenging.

I think that female physicians, as I'm sure you know, seem to have a very high rate of a history or current, you know, a disordered body image or disordered eating and emotional eating and all the things that can come along with that.

So can you tell me a little bit more about your, even though you do a lot of, you know, generally approaching for female physicians that that's an area that you have expertise in, can you just share a little bit more about, you know, what you've learned and how that also might pertain to the fertility journey where the treatments themselves make us more hungry, the progesterone, the increased metabolic demand, which then increases some of the desire to go to the pantry and whatever else that is calling.

- Yeah, no, I mean, I definitely think it's all connected.

So a lot of times with emotional eating, it's not about the food, it's about trying to deal, of course, with an emotion by eating.

And so of course, when you're going through the fertility journey, there are a lot of emotions.

I also remember one time, whenever I was about to do I remember the physician saying something like, "I think you should lose 10 pounds.

"If you lose 10 pounds, it'll probably go better for you." And maybe that's just true, but then you're kind of like, "Okay, well, how am I supposed to do that?" I'm on all of these hormones that I'm having to take.

And then also, like you said, your emotions are causing you maybe to engage in eating for reasons other than hunger.

And then now you feel all this pressure, like, oh my gosh, maybe that's why I haven't been able to get pregnant because I'm 10 pounds overweight, all right, if I just lost those 10 pounds and you might resort to disordered eating as a way to try to lose the weight.

And so, yeah, it's a very difficult time.

My journey is that I did struggle with an eating disorder as well.

I didn't get treatment for mine until 2021 or definitive treatment, I should say, along the way there had been some attempts at treatment in the past that didn't work, but definitive treatment 2021.

And so that was after my whole journey.

And so I didn't have the tools at that time.

Yeah, and so I think I did a lot of times respond just by eating to try to deal with emotions.

It would have been so helpful had I been through eating disorder treatment, I think ahead of time, just so I could have had a healthier relationship with food and then again learned how to deal with emotions in a way that didn't involve eating or a lot of times people try to deal with emotions by restricting.

So just, you know, or, you know, binging, purging, whatever, all of that would have been helpful to have dealt with beforehand.

But, but again, just the way the sequence of things worked out, I got, I found my way to help afterwards.

But I certainly would encourage any listeners who think that they might have an eating disorder struggle with with with eating issues to seek help because it's definitely very helpful to get that treated.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, it's a good reminder that people in all body sizes and shapes can have eating disorders. I think sometimes as physicians, we were taught this very narrow DSM view of like anorexia and bulimia and though this sort of gray zone of eating disorders, not otherwise but I think that we can never assume, right, based on somebody's body shape or size, that they're not struggling.

And I think it makes a lot of sense to ask, the question, I mean, I think at my worst, I was probably spending 70 to 80% of my thoughts on food and body.

And I think about, you know, talked with other coaches, physician coaches about this and just think of if we had that, even that mental energy, right, to spend on other endeavors, that was freed up, like, you know, just thinking about that, that power and that freedom, it just, it's very humbling for me to think about that. And so, um, what would you, you know, so many people talk about their bodies changing during IVF and, you know, that sort of gaining and restricting and all these different messages and patterns and such. What would you say to somebody who's listening now, who is struggling or maybe they were struggling and it got better for a little bit, but now this fertility treatment has been a trigger and it's sort of gotten, you know, out of control is such a weird way to say it's kind of hit that threshold where it's, it's no longer manageable.

What would you say to that person?

Yeah, so I definitely always encourage people to get help. That's what I always say, you know, I say as a physician, it's hard, right? Like it's hard to admit that there is something that we need help for. I had to take time off of work to go get help. So I had to take FMLA. I always encourage people FMLA is there for a reason, take it, whether it be to get help with eating issues or other mental health or even for your IVF journey or your infertility journey, I should say. FMLA is there, vacation is there. We should be taking those things are very important. And I think that it gave me the space by taking the six weeks off of work, it gave me the space to really focus on treatment and healing and just getting a better, developing a better relationship with my body and a better relationship with food and not worrying as much about what the exact number on the scale says, but thinking of health in maybe a more holistic way and that health is more than just the number on scale.

Health is also whether I'm sleeping, health is whether I am meditating or those types of things.

And so I think that as you're going through a infertility journey, I remember one time seeing a dietitian and they were just kind of, the traditional dietitian who was just sort of like, This is how much vegetables should be on your plate and how much carbs should be on your plate.

- Oh Trina, I saw a dietician in college and I told her how much weight I was at gain because I was trying to like develop and it was some, you know, not a great number, but I mean, it was like seven pounds or something, whatever I was like, objectively speaking, I've gained seven pounds.

And she was like, oh, that's a lot.

And I was just like, and that sent me into a new tailspin.

And so I think your point is well taken, we have to first acknowledge that we need help and then carve out the time and space to get the help that we need, but also to make sure that the team that we're choosing jives with our values and our priorities that are going to hold us with a tenderness and that they understand the journey because some very well-meeting dieticians and other people in this field don't always say the best thing.

Sometimes it can be worse.

And so just that sort of always remaining our own advocate to tune into our intuition, you know, maybe it's the good medicine that we need, but maybe it truly is not a good fit.

And that's where I think sometimes, you know, how do I feel in the context of this person is this is this right for me.

And so I'm I found a dietitian who's, you know, she dealt with a lot of eating disorders, but not just eating disorders.

She was just more of a holistic dietitian.

And she didn't focus on specifically what your weight was.

And she wasn't about counting macros and things like that.

And so I feel like she was very instrumental in just helping me to develop a healthier relationship with food.

And so I would certainly say for anyone of your listeners who's struggling with that, like just developing a healthier relationship with food in your body is gonna be helpful throughout this whole journey of infertility, but then also the rest of your life, right?

Like whether you do end up getting pregnant or not, there are feelings and emotions that come with that, that you want to find a healthier way to deal with.

And even if you do ultimately end up having a child, it's very easy when you're trying to have a child and you don't have one to think that all the problems will be solved when you do have one, But that's not true.

Just introduces a whole new set of problems.

(laughing)

And so you still need to know how to deal with emotions in a way that isn't something unhealthy for your body.

And so I definitely, yeah, think that's important.

- And to break those cycles moving forward, I mean, I think about the different generational standards.

The standards for my mom and her generation were way different than our standards, which are way different from the next generation.

So, you know, okay, if these treatments are successful, how can we raise the healthiest children we can?

Maybe we can set them up for success from the very beginning with the healthy relationship with our body and food, where there isn't all this undoing to be done either, right?

- Yes.

- That's unlearning, as I like to say.

- That's why what I really like about the intuitive eating approach, and you mentioned I was a certified intuitive eating counselor.

And partly I kind of did that as part of my own healing journey, just to delve deeper into it.

but I really like the approach because it really just kind of teaches people to think of just food is just food, right?

And it's feel for our body, but it's also okay to enjoy food sometime and not think about, you know, the calories and not worrying about that.

And, you know, it's okay sometimes to splurge.

And just, it really helps us to, that whole approach of intuitive eating gets us away from like the diet mentality and just more of a healthy, relationship with food. And so I would say for any of your listeners who just kind of want to learn more about what a healthy relationship with food might look like, I think learning about intuitive eating is a good place to start. And there are so many resources online about intuitive eating, books about it, podcasts, etc. That can kind of start that journey for your listeners on developing a healthier relationship with food and learning to just kind of enjoy food for Like the two rules that I learned as I was going through my treatment, because you know, when when struggle people with eating disorders have is they have all these food rules, but two of the rules I learned that were helpful were no food is bad food and all foods fit.

And I just found that to be very helpful, you know, because you see we often learn that there's foods that are bad and you know, you might think, oh my gosh, I just ate an Oreo and an Oreo is a bad food. So was that going to cause my IVF cycle to fail because I just ate this bad food?

And then you have all this stress around it. But I really liked the idea that, you know, no food is bad food. Yes, of course, we're not going to sit around and eat Oreos all day. But no food's bad food, all foods fit. They all have a place. You know, nothing, no one thing you're eating is why you did or did not get pregnant. It was just it's those rules have been very helpful for me as I've been on my recovery journey. Oh my gosh, same. And I think intuitive eating is really the way through. And it's funny, sometimes we might quote unquote, sporch on something. And then really, like, tune in and be like, Oh, I actually don't think I feel so well. Maybe I might avoid that.

So like, we're like, we have all these rules. Oh, I, you know, have all this, you know, sort of will power. I really believe it's so not about willpower. And then it's like, Oh, then we decide to and it's like, oh wait, I actually don't feel that well when I have that.

So it's that sort of like, what is gonna make me feel the best?

What's gonna make me feel the most powerful?

What's going to nourish my body and my mind?

And how can I be free?

And as you were talking, I was thinking about the sort of the undercurrent of both eating problems and fertility problems, at least one of the common threads is really, we don't trust our bodies, right?

When I was in the worst throes of my issues with food and body image, I really did not trust that my body would give me the feedback, would process the nutrients.

I had to be the one saying this many calories and this exercise schedule, and that's the way it's gotta be.

As I got into intuitive eating and listening to my body and what exercise do I want, I started to realize, oh, my body has its own wisdom.

It will process the nutrients.

It will tell me what I'm craving, what I'm hungry for based on my physiology.

Like there's all these things I just didn't realize.

And I think the same is true for the fertility journey.

We're like, I have to do this and this journey, this order and this way.

And it has to happen on this timeline.

And I think all those rules are really counterproductive.

I think if we can get into that thrusting space, that intuitive space of like, what is my body really called?

Maybe it's trying for a couple months outside of IVF and seeing what happens.

Maybe it's actually taking a break and going on a trip.

Maybe it's stepping back from IVF and trying a few cycles of let's resolve IUI again, if that's what's calling to you.

There's no right way, but I think the underlying assumption is, I can't trust myself.

I can't trust my body.

And I think that when we learn to trust, it feels vulnerable, especially at first, while we're kind of learning what it feels like, but I think that is actually where the power lies.

- Yeah, and I remember that once I finally gave myself permission to eat anything, right?

Like once I said, you know, everything is an option, you know, no foods, bad food, all foods fit, everything's an option.

Then that struggle went away.

And, you know, it's like once I'm allowed to have something, then the power it had over, you know, kind of disappeared.

And so I didn't have to try so hard.

And so I think you're right.

Like if even on the infertility journey, if you get rid of all the rules, because I think when you have all these rules and then you're always like, oh my gosh, I messed up on my rules, then that's so stressful.

But then when you kind of get rid of all the rules, then it takes away a lot of that stress and you feel a lot more freedom as you're going through the journey.

And you're beating yourself up a lot less too.

- That's right, and the rules are just arbitrary.

I mean, they're just the truth.

- Exactly.

- They're just arbitrary.

- Yes.

- So have a good REI, take good care of yourself during the process, have an expanded view of health, get yourself a coach.

You know, like you said, Trina, you're like, gosh, if I had had a coach during this time, it would have been a lot better.

And then also, you know, I think once, fertility is just the access point, right?

We realized like, oh, you know, this our whole lives were whole humans.

And so for me investing in coaching, I still do because I believe in it so much.

I believe in the power to transform my own life.

And, you know, I'm sure you do too, Trina, like just because coaching works, it up levels every experience that we have of life, whether it's relationships or, you know, fitness or, you know, professional fulfillment, whatever it is, you know, coaching will make it better if we put in, we gotta put in the effort and be, you know, willing to be uncomfortable in the sort of the growth zone.

But I think we both believe that coaching is really the best way through.

So, yeah.

- And like I said, like I think it's, when there's something you want that you don't have, It's so easy to think that once you get that thing, everything is gonna be perfect.

But I think that's so important to just remember that's not the case.

And so that's why getting the tools is helpful because even if you do get the thing you want, you're still gonna need the tools.

- That's right.

As one of my mentors says, there's no there there, right?

- Exactly.

- Oh my gosh.

Well, Trina, this was such an amazing conversation.

I'm sure my listeners are gonna wanna follow you and, you know, subscribe and everything.

What's the best place people can find you?

And of course, we'll put all your socials in our show notes as well.

- Yeah, my website is the affordablelifecoach.com.

So I would say they could find me there.

And I, you know, love talking about these things.

So yeah, thank you so much for having me on the podcast to share my story.

- Yes, and thank you for sharing, you know, I think our vulnerability is our strength and I truly believe we're stronger together.

So thank you again.

I look forward to all the future collaborations.

And to my listeners, you know I love you.

Bye.